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Subject: Any news on the launch date? rss

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Mark Foster
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When will Fading Glory be available?
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The GMT website says it's scheduled for "Mid-Late Third Quarter, 2012".

I'm guessing early fall. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.
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Steve Carey
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Mark,

I don't have any inside info on the production date, but can relate that the maps and counters are being proofed now. So things are looking to be on pace.
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Mark Foster
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Thanks for the quick reply Steve and Leroy43...I guess there's a lot of people waiting for this release!
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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This game must be GMTs worst supported game ever. It has no visible developer, no posting of news or artwork previews or info on possible changes in the scenarios either here or om CSW (it doesnt even have a csw folder....)

I have, almost by accident, seen previews of artwork elsewhere on the internet, and I am very disapointed, as they lean very! heavily on the VPG artwork (I love the VPG counters but find most of the maps boring and overly functional- especially redoubts and objectives)

The complete lack of support does not bode well for what could otherwise be a great series of games

Brian
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Alex Grant
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It's currently scheduled for September, 2012: June 6 Update from GMT
 
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Lance McMillan
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brian asklev aursen wrote:
This game must be GMTs worst supported game ever. It has no visible developer...


Considering that the four games in the 'Fading Glory' package were already fully developed for their VPG editions (by me) before they were delivered to GMT, I don't see what possible need there is/was for me to be "visible." What else were you hoping for?

brian asklev aursen wrote:
...find most of the maps boring and overly functional - especially redoubts and objectives.


I had no control over GMT's choice for the artwork (nor, for that matter, do I have much input for the VPG versions either -- that's handled by the art department).

brian asklev aursen wrote:
The complete lack of support does not bode well for what could otherwise be a great series of games.


Given that I check both the BGG and CSW online folders for the Nappy20 series on a daily basis (usually multiple times a day), and typically respond to questions/comments within 24 hours, I don't see what more support I can give as Series Developer. Could you elaborate on what you feel is missing?

Lance McMillan
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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Lance. You are a very dedicated developer of the VPG nap20 games, and are good at answering questions on BGG and the VPG folders on CSW. Are you also the deceloper for the GMT versions of the games? The GMT page is quiet about who is developing their version.

But there has not been any real talk or shilling about fading glory on the GMT folder and no folder has been created for the game to generate interest.

I know that you are not the graphics artist (and have not implied so), but I am disapoointed that the artist decide how the artwork should look like as I think the designers and developers should have a say in this. I have had alot of control over the artwork on the games i have designed for GMT, and think this is the case for modt GMT games.

It is also customary to show previews of final artwork when they are ready for this, and this has not happened at all on fading glory. The only pictures here and on the gmt page areof the VPG games and the game is supposed to ship soon, so if I didnt also check out the VPG newsletter I would be preordering a game without knowing anything about the look of the game.
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Lance McMillan
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brian asklev aursen wrote:
Are you also the deceloper for the GMT versions of the games? The GMT page is quiet about who is developing their version.


I can't speak for GMT's internal organizational procedures, so I can't say who they've appointed as developer for 'Fading Glory.' I haven't been officially designated as anything for the project, but GMT has been running all components past me for proofing/comment and have been very receptive to my input.

brian asklev aursen wrote:
...there has not been any real talk or shilling about fading glory on the GMT folder and no folder has been created for the game to generate interest.


Again, not speaking for GMT, but for my part I don't do "shilling" (I strongly disapprove of the practice). With regards to a folder, I suspect that GMT intends to rely on the VPG Nappy20 folder on CSW and here on BGG -- if they're looking to me to provide "authoritative input," that'd be the best place to look. In fact, it was only by chance that I very recently ran across this separate folder for 'Fading Glory' here on the Geek and began adding my comments to this thread.

brian asklev aursen wrote:
...I am disapointed that the artist decide how the artwork should look like as I think the designers and developers should have a say in this.


I do provide input, but have no actual "control" of the process. This is very wise on GMT and VPG's part as artwork is very subjective. From your comments I can definitely assure you that you DON'T want me in charge of deciding how the games would look: I have very minimalist tastes (for instance, were it left to me, we'd probably have very plain NATO-style counters, similar to the stuff you see in Steve Carey's pictures of his 'Salamanca 20' testkit). The good thing is that I realize my graphical preferences are probably very much in the minority and so I back off and let real artists handle that aspect of the project.

brian asklev aursen wrote:
...show previews of final artwork when they are ready for this, and this has not happened at all on fading glory.


As the Series Developer, I try to provide periodic updates of what we're working on for Nappy20 in the VPG newsletter, and Alan Emrich occasionally slips in a sneak peek of artwork on whatever game we're working on. Unfortunately, I can't do something similar for this project because these games are already done -- we finished development on them months or even years ago, so there's nothing for me to report. The only real activity is putting a GMT "spin" on the components before releasing the product.

Lance McMillan
Developer for VPG's "Napoleonic 20" series
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Kim Meints
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Brian

Why don't you go over to the GMT Game Company Support folder on Consim and ask why no art updates of mention of the progress of the game.I found it strange also no new artwork found on the GMT FG game page(I looked at it yesterday after you mentioned it).

As for a seperate folder. I agree with Lance.All the games are in the Nappy20 series so why a seperate folder for games that are already discussed over in that folder and even for years already.Heck,even Salamanca20 will sometime in the future be published by VPG .

VPG did have the Waterloo20 FG map artwork shown on a Weekend Update about a month or so ago.I saw it in the McMillan Report(which you need to go in about one or 2 pages in the updates to find).It was nice looking .
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Viscount Hill
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I agree is very strange not to have any new art advanced by GMT. I pre-order Fading Glory and I go to GMT page time to time to see if anything new has been published but I always just find Victory Point stuff as usual.

After reading your post I did a bit of research and I found GMT map of Salamanca for Fading Glory. Funny enough, not in GMT website but in Victory Point's.

http://victorypointgames.com/articleDetail.php?article_ID=22...

What I'm really interested is in Fading Glory cards art, a design dissapointingly simple in Victory Point's games (in on the other hand great games series)

can't wait for september.... soblue
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Lance McMillan
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I've seen near-final artwork for the GMT counters, maps and cards and I can assure you they look very nice indeed. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable posting any of it here (or CSW) as those are products of GMT's work, not mine or VPG's. If you really want "sneak peeks" your best bet might be to visit the GMT "company support" folder on CSW and ask them in that forum (they seem to be pretty responsive to requests that are made there).

As for the VPG event cards, those are being (gradually) upgraded as we move to the new "gold standard" version of the Nappy20 games. If you look at the samples from 'Leipzig 20' on the VPG website, you can see what I mean.

Lance McMillan
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Viscount Hill
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Hi Lance,

Thanks for the good news about how nice the GMT artwork will be. Thanks too for the hint to get a “sneak peeks”. I think I’ll wait, as I guess they probably prefer to show final artwork at their own website to everyone to see instead of responding to a one to one request. Specially if, as I think it will happen and I hope, they are about to do it (considering the game release is due next September).

I had a look to Leipzig 20 cards. They are very nice. Do not consider what I said about some others games cards as a strong criticism. One of the many good things about these games series is its affordability. I understand one can not demand the same graphics in a 70 dollars game than in one that cost 20. If I have to choose between content and packaging I would always prefer first one.

In can not miss this opportunity to “talk” to you, without congratulating you for such a nice and valuable games series. They have some of the things and a ratio simplicity/”enjoyability“ I had been looking for for years. I’m becoming a sort of evangelist here in may home country Spain…

best regards
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Kim Meints
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From what I have been told the Gold Standard cards will be Full size and not the smaller version as in the other games.These will appear first in the Wagram/Aspern-Essling20 combo pak.
 
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Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
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will these series rule changes/improvements be included in the GMT version as well?
 
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Lance McMillan
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brian asklev aursen wrote:
Will these series rule changes/improvements be included in the GMT version as well?


Emphatically YES! We had a recent meeting with the GMT folks to assure/reassure them that all the new v3.0 rules and various other mods to the system will be included in the 'Fading Glory' package. So, just to be clear, that means that they'll get the new Leaders and Fatigue markers (similar to those we created for 'Leipzig 20') as part of what we provide -- I'm assuming that GMT will include them (if they don't, that'll be their choice, not because we at VPG didn't give them access to it).
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Viscount Hill
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From scheduled "Mid-Late Third Quarter 2012”, release has been delayed with every new update. Now it is supposed to be November 2012.


It is strange, considering it is not a game to develop from the very beginning and it made the cut months ago. Anybody any idea why? Just curious …
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Steve Carey
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ViscountHill wrote:
Anybody any idea why? Just curious …


Yes - there are two companies (VPG and GMT) working on updating 3 different games (Waterloo, Borodino, and Smolensk) + creating a brand new game (Salamanca), all the while ensuring that every aspect of those 4 games are synchronized with the new 3.0 version of the Napoleonic 20 core rules (which includes Leaders as a late addition).

This means a lot of work on varied fronts (development, proofreading, production, etc.), and it also means those who purchase Fading Glory will have the best product possible.

Thnx for your interest and patience; we're almost there...
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Lance McMillan
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ViscountHill wrote:
...it is not a game to develop from the very beginning and it made the cut months ago. Anybody any idea why? Just curious.


Actually, in many ways it has been harder to "develop" the four games going into the 'Fading Glory' package than it is to create brand new games in the Nappy20 series. First, there's changing the games from VPG's format into GMT's format -- everything has to be checked carefully to ensure there aren't any slip ups or ommissions (and trust me, we've discovered numerous little items that would have created big problems if they hadn't been caught before going to press). Then there's the fact that all four of the games were originally released by VPG under the old v2.0 rules, and they all need to be updated by GMT to conform to the new v3.0 rules (which includes adding in Leaders and re-testing the scenarios to ensure they all flow properly). In some games the changes were relatively minor, but in others (Waterloo being a good example) the game was completely overhauled and is now substantially different from its original incarnation.

These things all take time. When you consider that we're simultaneously continuing to work on new Nappy20 projects for VPG while doing all the prep-work for GMT's 'Fading Glory' game, I think we're doing a pretty good job. The 'Fading Glory' package is almost ready (I think/hope I did the final proofing on the last component for it earlier this morning) and should be going to the printers shortly.
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Viscount Hill
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Steve, Lance,

Thanks for taking time to answer…

I guess my “anxiety” is not so much because the time taken but for every new update in which release was delayed from previous announcement…

Anyway, it is good to know that 3 old games in Fading Glory are not going to be just a new look&feel, but updated games..

I’m sure wait is going to be worth it.
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