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Subject: Influence a hex with a lonely ship rss

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Andrea Marino
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I can't understand the rulings at page 10 of 2nd edition: "TO a hex where only you have a ship". What does it mean, really?

Can I move an influence disc from the Influence Track or from a hex A under my control, to a hex B where there is only one ship, and this ship is mine, even if this hex isn't adjacent to any hex where I have a disc or a Ship?.



 
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Brian Gee
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sortilege wrote:
I can't understand the rulings at page 10 of 2nd edition: "TO a hex where only you have a ship". What does it mean, really?

This just means that if there are ships controlled by another player, you cannot place an influence disk there. The number of ships you have can be any number, not just 1.

sortilege wrote:
Can I move an influence disc from the Influence Track or from a hex A under my control, to a hex B where there is only one ship, and this ship is mine, even if this hex isn't adjacent to any hex where I have a disc or a Ship?.

Yes, if you have 1 or more ships on a hex, and no other players have any, you may influence it.
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Daniel Hammond
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sortilege wrote:
I can't understand the rulings at page 10 of 2nd edition: "TO a hex where only you have a ship". What does it mean, really?

Can I move an influence disc from the Influence Track or from a hex A under my control, to a hex B where there is only one ship, and this ship is mine, even if this hex isn't adjacent to any hex where I have a disc or a Ship?.



I am player A and you are player B and we have an undefended border. I can fly a ship through your areas (taking traitor card if we have diplomatic relations) and park a ship in an area that you have previously explored but abandoned (it is not adjacent to any of my influence disks). I could place a disk there using INF action if no one else moved in (or I can place one at the end of the turn without the INF action).

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Mike Watne
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dlhammond wrote:
I am player A and you are player B and we have an undefended border. I can fly a ship through your areas (taking traitor card if we have diplomatic relations) and park a ship in an area that you have previously explored but abandoned (it is not adjacent to any of my influence disks). I could place a disk there using INF action if no one else moved in (or I can place one at the end of the turn without the INF action).



Agreed. Just to clarify one more point: You cannot move a disk from Hex A to Hex B unless you use the INF action; any disk placed onto the hex at the end of the combat phase must come from your influence track.
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Andrea Marino
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But new rules at pag 10 now say explicitily:
Quote:
The hex Influenced has to have a Wormhole connection to the hex where you have a disc or a Ship.


And this condition seems to be valid for every kind of INF disc movement, without any regard FROM where you take the disc or TO where you move it.

How can I satisfy this condition if you said in your example that destination hex isn't adjacent to any of your influence disks or ships?
Quote:
I can fly a ship through your areas and park a ship in an area that you have previously explored but abandoned (it is not adjacent to any of my influence disks). I could place a disk there using INF action if no one else moved in


Please help me to understand. What am I missing?
 
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Andrea Marino
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Quote:
The hex Influenced has to have a Wormhole connection to the hex where you have a disc or a Ship.


Maybe does it mean that the same hex can be considered adjacent to itself???
In this weird case, I would have liked to have a more explicit ruling.
 
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Brian Gee
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sortilege wrote:
But new rules at pag 10 now say explicitily:
Quote:
The hex Influenced has to have a Wormhole connection to the hex where you have a disc or a Ship.

I don't have a copy of the V2 rules, but based on the V1 rules I can see the confusion. The V1 rules say there are 3 options for where you can put an influence disk:
Quote:
1) to a hex that does not contain an Influence Disc or an enemy
Ship and is adjacent to a hex where you have a disc or a Ship, or
2) to a hex where only you have a Ship, or
3) back to your Influence Track.

Note that in point number 1 it specifies the adjacency requirement within the bullet point (bolded section). Then it follows with:
Quote:
The hex Influenced has to have a Wormhole connection to the hex where you have a disc or a Ship.

I believe this part is just a further clarification of the bolded adjacency requirement in point 1 (it needs a wormhole connection, not just adjacency). It does not apply an adjacency requirement to point 2, although I can see how the way it is formatted could cause confusion. Point 2 is the one we're discussing, and the only requirement is having at least one ship present, and no opponent ships.

So to clarify, if you are the only player with a ship(s) on any hex you're good to influence, but if you want to influence a hex that you don't have a ship on, it needs to be adjacent via wormhole to a hex with your ship(s) or your influence disk.
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Daniel Hammond
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sortilege wrote:

How can I satisfy this condition if you said in your example that destination hex isn't adjacent to any of your influence disks or ships?
Quote:
I can fly a ship through your areas and park a ship in an area that you have previously explored but abandoned (it is not adjacent to any of my influence disks). I could place a disk there using INF action if no one else moved in


Please help me to understand. What am I missing?

I didn't say what you said I said. I moved a ship into an hex with no influence disk. Now I have a ship there. I can influence that hex if there are no enemy ships there.
 
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Andrea Marino
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This is from the second edition, page 10.
I think they have changed things from the first edition.

Quote:
By selecting the Influence action, you may move up to two
Influence Discs. These moves may be:

from your Influence Track, or
from a hex where you have an Influence Disc

to a hex that does not contain an Influence Disc or an enemy Ship and is adjacent to a hex where you have a disc or a Ship, or
to a hex where only you have a Ship, or
back to your Influence Track.

The hex Influenced has to have a Wormhole connection to the hex where you have a disc or a Ship.


It seems that an INF disc movement has two possible "FROM" origins, and three "TO" possible destinations. And this is clearly the same things you are explaining to me. Good.

But then there is the paragraph that explicitly adds another condition, VALID FOR ALL type of INF disc movements because this sentence is another paragraph, below the 2 "FROM" and the 3 "TO" points above.

Brian, I really want to trust you when you say:
Quote:
I believe this part is just a further clarification of the bolded adjacency requirement in point 1 (it needs a wormhole connection, not just adjacency)


and

Quote:
So to clarify, if you are the only player with a ship(s) on any hex you're good to influence, but if you want to influence a hex that you don't have a ship on, it needs to be adjacent via wormhole to a hex with your ship(s) or your influence disk.


You are speaking very clearly, but the new rules seem to say something different.

From now on I will do like you said, but I think the 2nd ed. rules at pag 10 are very bad formatted and confusing.
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Ian Kelly
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sortilege wrote:
This is from the second edition, page 10.
I think they have changed things from the first edition.

Quote:
By selecting the Influence action, you may move up to two
Influence Discs. These moves may be:

from your Influence Track, or
from a hex where you have an Influence Disc

to a hex that does not contain an Influence Disc or an enemy Ship and is adjacent to a hex where you have a disc or a Ship, or
to a hex where only you have a Ship, or
back to your Influence Track.

The hex Influenced has to have a Wormhole connection to the hex where you have a disc or a Ship.


It seems that an INF disc movement has two possible "FROM" origins, and three "TO" possible destinations. And this is clearly the same things you are explaining to me. Good.

But then there is the paragraph that explicitly adds another condition, VALID FOR ALL type of INF disc movements because this sentence is another paragraph, below the 2 "FROM" and the 3 "TO" points above.


It says "the hex where you have a disc or Ship", not "a hex where you have a disc or Ship". In other words, it's referring back to the same hex already mentioned, which only exists for the first destination.

Likewise, it says "the hex Influenced", but in the third destination case there is no hex Influenced, so the paragraph does not apply.

I agree it's not as clear as it could be, but I think the text still agrees with what Brian is saying.
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Daniel Hammond
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sortilege wrote:

Quote:
So to clarify, if you are the only player with a ship(s) on any hex you're good to influence, but if you want to influence a hex that you don't have a ship on, it needs to be adjacent via wormhole to a hex with your ship(s) or your influence disk.


You are speaking very clearly, but the new rules seem to say something different.


This is mostly correct. "...it needs to be adjacent via wormhole to a hex with your ship(s) or your influence disk." It also needs to have no influence disk or enemy ships.

So in my example where the ship moves to an empty hex not adjacent to any of my hexes, not only could I move a disk to that hex, but I could also move a disk to any empty hexes (no enemy ships or disks) adjacent to that hex and connected by wormholes (or half wormholes if I had the generator tech).
 
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Andrea Marino
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Thank you, now I understand. They could have added this sentence inside the first point, it could be very clear if it was:

By selecting the Influence action, you may move up to two
Influence Discs. These moves may be:

• from your Influence Track, or
• from a hex where you have an Influence Disc

• to a hex that does not contain an Influence Disc or an enemy Ship and is adjacent - and connected by a Wormhole connection - to a hex where you have a disc or a Ship, or
• to a hex where only you have a Ship, or
• back to your Influence Track.
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Oskari Leppäaho
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What about moving to a hex that contains an enemy disc but no enemy ships as the second to condition is "to a hex where only you have a ship"?
 
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Geoff Speare
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I think the intent is that "only you have a Ship" means "no other Ships and no Influence discs", but that is not at all clear from the written rule.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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You can't influence a hex that has someone else's disk already on it.
 
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