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Subject: Sling Infantry question rss

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After playing a few rounds of this game i have a question regarding slingshot units:

in my german playeraid they have the exact same stats as regular light infantry. Ive read on the geek that they should have stats like bow infantry. did they get nerfed or is there an error in my player aid?


Bonus inquiry: why does high ground give no advantage to long range combat? My adversary and i have been puzzled by this.
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Robert Grainger
United Kingdom
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borgfather wrote:
After playing a few rounds of this game i have a question regarding slingshot units:

in my german playeraid they have the exact same stats as regular light infantry. Ive read on the geek that they should have stats like bow infantry. did they get nerfed or is there an error in my player aid?


Bonus inquiry: why does high ground give no advantage to long range combat? My adversary and i have been puzzled by this.


I can't answer your second question, but as to your first, Slingers have identical stats to Bow Infantry units.
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Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
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borgfather wrote:
Bonus inquiry: why does high ground give no advantage to long range combat? My adversary and i have been puzzled by this.

This is one of those things that don't need special rules because the effects are emerging from the game's mechanics IMHO, just like flanking doesn't need special rules because the morale and support rules take care of making flanks weaker than the center of a line:

You want to put your ranged troops on high ground because when the enemy reaches them, they will be protected by the high ground. So the historical effect of seeking high ground with ranged troops happens without additional rules.

There's tons of other little details that emerge from the relatively simple rules without border cases and special exceptions, that's one of the things that makes this game's design so elegant and awesome to me.
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Steve Norton
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Robert's answer to your first question is spot on.

Regarding the second issue, I too found it odd that units engaging in ranged combat do not get a bonus if they are standing on elevated terrain. An extra dice or an extra hex of range might seem appropriate.

I'll offer two possible explanations:

1) The designers found any such bonus to be overpowered.

2) The designers felt that such a bonus would be thematically inappropriate. I am no historian but I'm not aware of a battle of this period being notable for the superiority of ranged units on elevated terrain.
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
France
Caen
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ReggieMcFly wrote:
I'll offer two possible explanations:

1) The designers found any such bonus to be overpowered.

2) The designers felt that such a bonus would be thematically inappropriate. I am no historian but I'm not aware of a battle of this period being notable for the superiority of ranged units on elevated terrain.

One of the virtues of this game is that it has a very simple approach, using a relatively "big hexes" grid and a low dice-number range. As a consequence, some small effects would lead to fractions of hex or dice, like for example bows/slings having a 3.2/2.9 range or some types of infantry throwing 3.2 instead of 3 dice when attacking out of a hill.

And since things are rounded to integer values, then you don't see the effect, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the effect was overlooked, it just was not important enough to go one step higher in the small discrete scale.
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Craig Stosser
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I love the elegant simplicity of this game but there are a couple things that could make it better.

NUMBER ONE: Ranged combat units on higher terrain (hills, ramparts, walls, whatever) may fire over intervening units.

EOM
 
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Try it with your friends and tell us how it works out!

Personally, I think missile-armed troops are pretty tough already.
 
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my friends and i have found the missile units to be pretty weak... the hit/miss ratio seems off. especially when you have to move your troops into firing range first. But as this post has shown, my experience is skewed by the shorter range of slingers ive been playing with.
 
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A friend likes to play with a house rule he calls "The Lights Rule." Basically, ordered light foot units can move freely through friendly units, terrain limitations permitting. However, they can't engage in combat at the end of the move and it may not be used for retreats nor evades. The cards Order Lights and Move-Fire-Move are still resolved normally.

I find those cards and the Evade move to be the great equalizers for Light Foot and Mounted units. Evade grants a repositioning move for anyone that Melees the Lights and it prevents a breakthrough move. They can also take advantage of Line Command and Double-Time, which seem to be intended for getting heavier foot units into Melee.

It's fascinating to watch when a bunch of light troops stop a line of heavier units through good play!
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Dave Briggs
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Seems to me that allowing Light units to freely move through other units negates and neutralizes the Order Light and Move-Fire-Move cards. I find that Light units are very powerful units and don't need any more refinements to increase their power.

I don't care that people want to use house rules, that's fine, but I personally think the game is pretty near perfect as is. The relationship between the card deck and the unique atributes of the units is the heart of the game. After playing hundreds of CCA battles I have realized that a lot of thought went into the card/unit interaction. To change that interaction, in my opinion, alters the nature of the game.
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Brigz wrote:
Seems to me that allowing Light units to freely move through other units negates and neutralizes the Order Light and Move-Fire-Move cards. I find that Light units are very powerful units and don't need any more refinements to increase their power.


I thought it would too, but it really doesn't. Move-Fire-Move and Order Lights allows you to infiltrate friendly units and still conduct combat. That house rule my buddy and I sometimes use allows for the infiltration of ordered Light Foot units, but no combat is permitted when they do that unless those cards are played. That house rule doesn't apply to Evades or Retreats, either, so a fair number of Light units still get pinned in our games and suffer for it.

I agree with you that Light Foot units are pretty tough already. (I even said so a few posts earlier!) They don't need a house rule like that. My friend likes it, I oblige, and I don't think it's so bad.

Quote:
I don't care that people want to use house rules, that's fine, but I personally think the game is pretty near perfect as is. The relationship between the card deck and the unique atributes of the units is the heart of the game. After playing hundreds of CCA battles I have realized that a lot of thought went into the card/unit interaction. To change that interaction, in my opinion, alters the nature of the game.


I agree with your observation up to your last sentence. I've played hundreds of C&C:A games, too. I wouldn't put up with the house rule I describe if I saw a big difference in our games.
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Dave Briggs
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I guess I'm just a purist. I think CCA is a very clever piece of work. It is elegant in it's simplicity but infinitly engrossing in play.

I do have to admit to a few "variations" that I'd like to try sometime. One idea we had thought of trying is allowing each player to pick just one card from the deck each turn and having to play just that card. Probably take a long time to finish a game, but it would be interesting.
 
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