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A Touch of Evil: The Supernatural Game» Forums » General

Subject: "A Touch of Evil" or "Investigation Tokens of Evil"? rss

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Nunya Business
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My group really, really wants to like this game. After all I own it. The problem is the game just seems all about collecting investigation tokens.

Every card its "bland thing happens, roll X amount of die, collect X number of investigation tokens." To my group, there really is no difference between going to investigate the MANOR or the OLD WOODS. As they both just load you down with investigation tokens after rolling X amount of die.

After several plays my group and I actually renamed this game: "INVESTIGATION TOKENS OF EVIL"

It rarely even makes it to the gaming table anymore. Anyone else experience the same with this game?

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Lee Valentine
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Are you playing co-op or competitive? I believe that co-op doesn't scale super well past 2 or maybe 3 people.

The game is effectively about amassing information and toys. You can either find toys or buy toys. You equip yourself to fight evil. The game, particularly with all the expansions, has a fair bit of strategy in it, but it involves shopping around for the right types of items.

Different locations have different types of challenges in slightly different proportions and different types of toys to find. So, if you are a character that fights with spirit instead of combat, you'd want to visit locations that give you loot to improve your spirit.

If you never shop and you are unfamiliar with the card pool then you will be throwing dice, visiting random locations, and buying nothing (or buying poorly chosen equipment).

There's more to the game in competitive play. In co-op play, you can lose if you mistime things, but you can otherwise run the clock really far down. In competitive play you are racing to the finish, so there's more tension and more risks. I have fun with either mode of play. I play the co-op or solo games more frequently, though.

Lee
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PrimordialOne wrote:

Every card its "bland thing happens, roll X amount of die, collect X number of investigation tokens." To my group, there really is no difference between going to investigate the MANOR or the OLD WOODS. As they both just load you down with investigation tokens after rolling X amount of die.


And equipment! Don't forget the equipment!

PrimordialOne wrote:

Anyone else experience the same with this game?


Every time I play it. And I like it that way




But yeah, I know people who don't play it anymore either, for the same reasons you just gave.
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hudarklord wrote:
Are you playing co-op or competitive? I believe that co-op doesn't scale super well past 2 or maybe 3 people.

The game is effectively about amassing information and toys. You can either find toys or buy toys. You equip yourself to fight evil. The game, particularly with all the expansions, has a fair bit of strategy in it, but it involves shopping around for the right types of items.

Different locations have different types of challenges in slightly different proportions and different types of toys to find. So, if you are a character that fights with spirit instead of combat, you'd want to visit locations that give you loot to improve your spirit.

If you never shop and you are unfamiliar with the card pool then you will be throwing dice, visiting random locations, and buying nothing (or buying poorly chosen equipment).

There's more to the game in competitive play. In co-op play, you can lose if you mistime things, but you can otherwise run the clock really far down. In competitive play you are racing to the finish, so there's more tension and more risks. I have fun with either mode of play. I play the co-op or solo games more frequently, though.

Lee


Co-op. And all of the shopping and investigation token collecting is why we somewhat hate the game. Its way too bland. Beautiful game without much to it. Its easy to become bored with this game.
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Lee Valentine
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Try playing it solo, co-op with just 2 players, or competitive.

With more than 2 players co-op can often make for a long, easy game with no dramatic tension. Competitive has much more tension, and the games can be slightly shorter in some cases.

All the tension is at the end of the shadow track and in the final fight. If you are overprepared for this in co-op, it'll be a cake walk and thus boring.

Lee
 
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hudarklord wrote:
Try playing it solo, co-op with just 2 players, or competitive.

With more than 2 players co-op can often make for a long, easy game with no dramatic tension. Competitive has much more tension, and the games can be slightly shorter in some cases.

All the tension is at the end of the shadow track and in the final fight. If you are overprepared for this in co-op, it'll be a cake walk and thus boring.

Lee


I've played solo, co-op with just two players, and the group also played competitively. Competitive appears to be the best. Competitive was not spectacular, just ok.

However, its just sad that co-op is so bland. It seems like they just threw the game together; the only fun is in the beginning and the end. And even the end doesn't seem all that dramatic. It just seems mechanical and stale.
 
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PrimordialOne wrote:

I've played solo, co-op with just two players, and the group also played competitively. Competitive appears to be the best. Competitive was not spectacular, just ok.

However, its just sad that co-op is so bland. It seems like they just threw the game together; the only fun is in the beginning and the end. And even the end doesn't seem all that dramatic. It just seems mechanical and stale.


I assume you're playing without Something Wicked? Sorry, I assumed earlier that you were looking for something with more complex rules, but from your other replies it sounds to me like it might be too easy for you.

If difficulty is what you want, you could try drawing Mystery cards more frequently, or try the advanced rules (with the advanced villain abilities). Another solution might be to try Something Wicked, which makes the game much more challenging - although I really, really hate telling people to buy an expansion to fix a game issue. And in this case, I also hate to advise you to throw more money at a game title that you haven't enjoyed very much.

I got my copy in a math trade from someone who played it once, and who found it dull for the same reasons you gave.
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WizardHowl wrote:
PrimordialOne wrote:

I've played solo, co-op with just two players, and the group also played competitively. Competitive appears to be the best. Competitive was not spectacular, just ok.

However, its just sad that co-op is so bland. It seems like they just threw the game together; the only fun is in the beginning and the end. And even the end doesn't seem all that dramatic. It just seems mechanical and stale.


I assume you're playing without Something Wicked? Sorry, I assumed earlier that you were looking for something with more complex rules, but from your other replies it sounds to me like it might be too easy for you.

If difficulty is what you want, you could try drawing Mystery cards more frequently, or try the advanced rules (with the advanced villain abilities). Another solution might be to try Something Wicked, which makes the game much more challenging - although I really, really hate telling people to buy an expansion to fix a game issue. And in this case, I also hate to advise you to throw more money at a game title that you haven't enjoyed very much.

I got my copy in a math trade from someone who played it once, and who found it dull for the same reasons you gave.


An old associate of mine had "Something Wicked." It seemed ok. They really should have put more into this game IMO.

It just does not measure up. Now, on the other hand, the group I game with likes Arkham Horror. The theme is richer and its not just about collecting clue tokens.
 
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I don't agree, but taste is subjective & what some find enjoyable in a game others don't. I don't find the encounters bland at all, but exciting. I'm always looking forward to what comes next. I love how they weave together & create a story. The fun for me is how they stimulate my imagination.

The investigation gathering doesn't bother me. I picture my Hero examining the scene, looking for clues. It's really just a mechanic to allow me to progress my hero & gather what I need for the final showdown.

TBH I think it's just a case that this game isn't *clicking* for you. Sad, but some games just don't resonate w/ some & do with others I guess.
---MS
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Jason Cookingham
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Didn't you already start this same discussion?

AToE gameplay seems dull.

It is still just a pretty Talisman.
It won't become any more like Arkham Horror no matter how much you try it.
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I enjoy this game for the storytelling aspect, not the game mechanics. I tried twice to get into Arkham Horror and didn't enjoy it at all. The fiddly rules made the game feel like work, the length was too long and the fact that the monsters popping up on the board have nothing to do with the main baddie you are hunting was a disconnect for me.

My son and I play this 2 player competitive, at night with the appropriate mood music.

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What is funny is the game has potential. We want to like the game; but the fact that it is just boring won't quit. Running around picking up tokens over and over; with dull encounters that just tell you to pick up more of the same thing is hurting this game for us.

You have to use your imagination during this game because its so bland.

Bland event happens at Old Woods, roll Spirit check, pick up Investigation Tokens.

Bland event happens at Manor, rolls Spirit check, pick up Investigation Tokens. And on and on and on..

One comment made (by one of my group) was that: There really is no difference between the locations. You can just close your eyes and go anywhere to get the exact same thing. Yes, there may be a slight difference in the bland descriptions. Yet, not enough that you'd say "You know what I have to get to the Old Woods for X." You can pretty much go to any of the locations and "pick up investigation tokens."

Maybe you're right that this game just isn't clicking for us. Hopefully Flying Frog will "fix" this dull section of the game with the new expansion.
 
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PrimordialOne wrote:
You have to use your imagination during this game because its so bland.


Again, disagree. There's a difference between having your imagination stimulated by a game, being drawn in by it, & having it make you part of the creative process/play experience & having to use it. ATOE does the former for me, I don't feel as if I have to do the latter to force any enjoyment from the game. It just happens.

Despite the fact that you really want to like the game, It does seem that you really dislike it quite a bit. I doubt the expansion will change that much, as it is likely to merely add "more of the same" as SW did for the most part.

So if you LIKE the same, you'll probably like it. Me, I can't wait for it. If I were you, on the other hand, I would probably avoid it. I don't think it will do much to change your opinion.
---MS
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George
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Mainly I think of the corner locations as having cool items to outfit my character with... not a source of investigation tokens. Especially since you can only buy 3 town items but have 4 of the location items. But yeah, if you're not enjoying it, then you're not enjoying it.
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Lee Valentine
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The difficulty of co-op is higher with the Something Wicked expansion. There are also optional showdown fight rules to make the end of the game more varied. The vanilla co-op rules from the base set were actually pretty easy to deal with unless you continuously rolled something that moved the shadow track multiple steps at a time.

If you are unwilling to invest in an expansion for diversity or if you already have, then the game may just not be for you.

Lee
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Hunting for token is actually kind of cool... It represents the knowledge about the villain you gain after investigating some situations.

Think of it has the movie ''sleepy Hallow'' its all the same. But I admit the best part is actually adding some roleplay, aided by the card text. Also, it is kind of sad you get to buy items with knowledge.

-Hey, I think the villain is a vampire.
-A vampire? Wow, that info is well worth A GUN
-Thanks, now I'll hit my head on the wall so I forget about it, making sure I cant buy anything else with that info -Removes token-
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Delrico wrote:
Also, it is kind of sad you get to buy items with knowledge.

-Hey, I think the villain is a vampire.
-A vampire? Wow, that info is well worth A GUN
-Thanks, now I'll hit my head on the wall so I forget about it, making sure I cant buy anything else with that info -Removes token-


They actually have a reasoning for this in the rules. It's not that your buying anything, its that the more you investigate, the more you prove to the town inhabitants that you really are helping them out. They in turn are than willing to help you out by giving you items (blacksmith), teaching you spiritual matters (increase spirit at the church), etc. But to be able to keep getting help from them, you have to keep helping them by gathering investigation markers.

Jorune
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You know, to get this game is all how you approach it. This is less a rules game and more of a storytelling game. If you're looking for rules and a system to game, play Arkham. But if you're interested in telling a story, AToE is it. It evokes Tim Burton's Sleepy Hollow to a tee.

If you and your friends are willing to set the lights low, but on some spooky music (the included CD will suffice) and actually roleplay your way through, you're really going to enjoy yourself with this game. It is easy to teach, short and the rules don't get in the way. I think competitive is the way to go, adds to the fun. Approach it like it's less of a euro masterpiece and more of a (heavy weight) party game. Don't just announce 'MURDER!" and drop some investigative tokens on the board, make up a quick story about some hapless villager out in the night who was beheaded by the Horseman.

Importantly enough, I come from an RPG background, so this game works for me. It isn't for everyone and you just might lack the correct mindset required to enjoy this game.

Jorune
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This games does not tell a story. Most of the encounters are "Bland thing happens, roll X number of dice, gain investigation tokens." You run around collecting investigation tokens and beefing up with them. You then pay, with investigation tokens, to fight the bad guy and the game is over.

Arkham Horror tells a story. You actually HAVE character storylines to follow in AH. This game is all about investigation tokens. Arkham Horror offers actual choices and makes the characters interesting. And you actually have a reason to go to certain locations other than collecting the same tokens over and over.

In "Investigation Tokens of Evil" there is no difference between going to the MANOR or the WOODS. They both give you investigation tokens and bland encounters!
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Delrico wrote:

-Hey, I think the villain is a vampire.
-A vampire? Wow, that info is well worth A GUN
-Thanks, now I'll hit my head on the wall so I forget about it, making sure I cant buy anything else with that info -Removes token-


-Have you heard, blacksmith? The vampire left traces of sumac leaves around the body of that poor fellow in the windmill.
-Then it seems I should avoid the Olde Woods. Poor fellow indeed...Here, take this pistol that he asked me to fix. He won't need it any longer.

Later:
-You're the Hanbrooks' maid, aren't you? Have you heard about the fellow they found at the windmill?
-Oh sir, everyone knows about that. The stableboy heard it from the midwife, who heard it from the mayor's housekeeper, who heard it from the blacksmith.
-Drat. I shall have to discover some new news, if I am to persuade you to tell me Lady Hanbrook's secrets.
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PrimordialOne wrote:
This games does not tell a story. Most of the encounters are "Bland thing happens, roll X number of dice, gain investigation tokens." You run around collecting investigation tokens and beefing up with them. You then pay, with investigation tokens, to fight the bad guy and the game is over.

Arkham Horror tells a story. You actually HAVE character storylines to follow in AH. This game is all about investigation tokens. Arkham Horror offers actual choices and makes the characters interesting. And you actually have a reason to go to certain locations other than collecting the same tokens over and over.

In "Investigation Tokens of Evil" there is no difference between going to the MANOR or the WOODS. They both give you investigation tokens and bland encounters!



Yeah...this game isn't for you. shake Don't see that changing either. I'd trade or sell it & move on. whistle
---MS
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M00NSYLVER wrote:
PrimordialOne wrote:
This games does not tell a story. Most of the encounters are "Bland thing happens, roll X number of dice, gain investigation tokens." You run around collecting investigation tokens and beefing up with them. You then pay, with investigation tokens, to fight the bad guy and the game is over.

Arkham Horror tells a story. You actually HAVE character storylines to follow in AH. This game is all about investigation tokens. Arkham Horror offers actual choices and makes the characters interesting. And you actually have a reason to go to certain locations other than collecting the same tokens over and over.

In "Investigation Tokens of Evil" there is no difference between going to the MANOR or the WOODS. They both give you investigation tokens and bland encounters!



Yeah...this game isn't for you. shake Don't see that changing either. I'd trade or sell it & move on. whistle
---MS


I may trade it for FaNG by Flying Frog. I'll wait to see what the expansion, The Coast, offers first. If it offers nothing but more investigation tokens, and min-maxing, this game will be up for trade.
 
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PrimordialOne wrote:

I may trade it for FaNG by Flying Frog. I'll wait to see what the expansion, The Coast, offers first. If it offers nothing but more investigation tokens, and min-maxing, this game will be up for trade.


I have most of the Flying Frog games and expansions. I'm selling off FANG. It's very long. VERY VERY fiddly. It's also swamped by luck. It lacks the easy shopping/equipping of A Touch of Evil. I really wanted to like FANG, but it's going to get punted.

Lee
 
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hudarklord wrote:
PrimordialOne wrote:

I may trade it for FaNG by Flying Frog. I'll wait to see what the expansion, The Coast, offers first. If it offers nothing but more investigation tokens, and min-maxing, this game will be up for trade.


I have most of the Flying Frog games and expansions. I'm selling off FANG. It's very long. VERY VERY fiddly. It's also swamped by luck. It lacks the easy shopping/equipping of A Touch of Evil. I really wanted to like FANG, but it's going to get punted.

Lee


Whats FaNG?

Jorune
 
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Jorune wrote:
Whats FaNG?


Fortune and Glory
 
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