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Subject: A great experience rss

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Drew Sonnenberg
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First, a disclaimer: I do not know Ryan personally, have never met him, and have no affiliation with Red Raven Games.

I have seen and read several threads here complaining about the condition of their copies of EotV. Some of them go so far as to blame Ryan for this, which, as has already been pointed out, is not his fault.

Ryan kept us updated as he became aware of various delays with production and shipping. He is not at fault for the production delays.

Game Salute is in charge of the distribution, which some have blamed for the condition of their boxes. I would like to point on that my copy was not packaged in a small box, and did contain adequate packing materials for protecting my box. The point being, if your game was not packaged like that, it is not Ryan's fault for choosing Game Salute. It is Game Salute's fault for not being consistent and considerate. That being said, I'm sure that if you contact Game Salute or Ryan himself, they would be more than happy to help you resolve your problem.

I feel that Ryan has done a fantastic job getting us the product that he promised in his Kickstarter campaign. Any issues that some of you may have (whether they be big or small) seem, in my opinion, to not be Ryan's fault. So rather than writing numerous threads bashing Ryan, perhaps you could address the issue in a more constructive manner.

I, personally, would like to thank Ryan for all the hard work he has done throughout this campaign and, more importantly, for making a fantastic new game for my table.
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Alf Seegert
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Seconded! (And for what it's worth, I received my copy yesterday and it's in tip-top shape: box and components are excellent.)
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Gary Sonnenberg
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dedlius wrote:
First, a disclaimer: I do not know Ryan personally, have never met him, and have no affiliation with Red Raven Games.

I have seen and read several threads here complaining about the condition of their copies of EotV. Some of them go so far as to blame Ryan for this, which, as has already been pointed out, is not his fault.

Ryan kept us updated as he became aware of various delays with production and shipping. He is not at fault for the production delays.

Game Salute is in charge of the distribution, which some have blamed for the condition of their boxes. I would like to point on that my copy was not packaged in a small box, and did contain adequate packing materials for protecting my box. The point being, if your game was not packaged like that, it is not Ryan's fault for choosing Game Salute. It is Game Salute's fault for not being consistent and considerate. That being said, I'm sure that if you contact Game Salute or Ryan himself, they would be more than happy to help you resolve your problem.

I feel that Ryan has done a fantastic job getting us the product that he promised in his Kickstarter campaign. Any issues that some of you may have (whether they be big or small) seem, in my opinion, to not be Ryan's fault. So rather than writing numerous threads bashing Ryan, perhaps you could address the issue in a more constructive manner.

I, personally, would like to thank Ryan for all the hard work he has done throughout this campaign and, more importantly, for making a fantastic new game for my table.


Actually, it was shipped in a box similar to those I've seen posted, but yes, it did have some packing material and is in perfect shape.

I peeked inside and only found a couple itsy-bitsy problems with the top layer of cardboard on the bits - nothing like has been reported elsewhere. So I'd say great shape inside too.

(See...it's his copy of the game, but he had it shipped to my address. And no, I haven't punched it yet, JN.)
 
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David desJardins
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dedlius wrote:
The point being, if your game was not packaged like that, it is not Ryan's fault for choosing Game Salute. It is Game Salute's fault for not being consistent and considerate.


Huh? Why isn't he responsible for his choices?
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Jeff Hall
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alfseegert wrote:
Seconded! (And for what it's worth, I received my copy yesterday and it's in tip-top shape: box and components are excellent.)


Ditto with me. In fact, the only issue I had was that the knuckle-headed mail carrier left the box on my front stoop in the rain instead of putting it in the carport 7 feet to his left. No issues at all with the game box or bits themselves.
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Scott Lewis
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dedlius wrote:
The point being, if your game was not packaged like that, it is not Ryan's fault for choosing Game Salute. It is Game Salute's fault for not being consistent and considerate.

I place the blame almost 100% on GameSalute. While Ryan did make the choice, I think he did so in good faith that GameSalute would live up to their end of the bargain. While admittedly I don't know what the "deal" between them was, as far as I can tell, on the whole GameSalute failed miserably to deliver and live up to their end.

The only thing I would begrudge Ryan for is if he used them again in the future (IE, I hope he's seriously considering a different distribution method for City of Iron.)

Quote:
That being said, I'm sure that if you contact Game Salute or Ryan himself, they would be more than happy to help you resolve your problem.

Considering my "problem" is the ridiculously long delivery time, I'm not sure there's anything GameSalute can do to resolve it at this point. Now if my game arrives DAMAGED, then yes, I'll be in contact with them about that aspect.


I do feel Ryan has been very communicative during this process, at least more than adequate for what I expect from him. Sure, I suppose he could be accountable for choosing GameSalute in the first place, but again, I don't think he expected this debacle to occur, and I don't feel he got what I assume he paid for.
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Davido
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+1 to delivered as scheduled, securely packed, no damage to box, components in tip top shape. Now to punch n play
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Jerry
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Mine arrived today. No packing materials, but game was undamaged and components are fine. Looks great!

I really don't get all the complaints. The game was originally slated for February. It's early May. That's well within the timeframes typical with this hobby. Does it really matter that much whether it is delivered May 9th or May 2nd?
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Scott Lewis
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gversace wrote:
Does it really matter that much whether it is delivered May 9th or May 2nd?

It matters to me that a company that is shipping stuff uses the worst possible shipping method, waits 2 weeks to even send it out, and then not pack the materials for shipping.

Sure, it's just a game, and yes, I've been waiting a long time already. But my complaints are based on the relative service level. GameSalute is thus-far the absolute WORST company I've received a board game shipment from, and as such, they will not be getting more of my business later if I can avoid it in any way.

EDIT: Just an emphasis that my dislike is for GameSalute, NOT Red Raven Games
 
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Doug Childs
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I also wanted to say that my game arrived today. Two days earlier than its revised delivery date of May 11. It was packed in a tight box with no packing materials. The game was shrink wrapped, undamaged and the components looked great. I am actually missing one credit token from one of the sheets. Ryan was very responsive and I applaud his customer service.
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Jerry
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sigmazero13 wrote:
gversace wrote:
Does it really matter that much whether it is delivered May 9th or May 2nd?

It matters to me that a company that is shipping stuff uses the worst possible shipping method, waits 2 weeks to even send it out, and then not pack the materials for shipping.


Just seems like overreacting to me, with the exception of the packing materials, which I was disappointed in (but no damage resulted). Am I missing something previous about Gamesalute? Or is everyone really just pissed that the game took a couple extra weeks for shipping?
 
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Scott Lewis
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gversace wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
gversace wrote:
Does it really matter that much whether it is delivered May 9th or May 2nd?

It matters to me that a company that is shipping stuff uses the worst possible shipping method, waits 2 weeks to even send it out, and then not pack the materials for shipping.


Just seems like overreacting to me, with the exception of the packing materials, which I was disappointed in (but no damage resulted). Am I missing something previous about Gamesalute? Or is everyone really just pissed that the game took a couple extra weeks for shipping?

Maybe it's just a "relative expectations" thing for me. With every other preorder I've done, I received my copy of the game within a couple days after the game was received by the shippers.

Plus, GameSalute has outright ADMITTED that they deliberately withheld orders to try and make some kind of artificial "everyone gets the game at the same time". I would rather have had them send things out in just whatever order they pulled them off the list - I think pretty much EVERYONE would have received their game faster.

It's not just one factor - it's the whole combination of factors that has got me upset.
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Jerry
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Okay. Different perspectives, I suppose. Personally, I think the project went rather well, at least from a delivery standpoint. It wasn't terribly late, arrived safe and sound, and has really nice production. Hopefully the gameplay measures up, but I haven't been disappointed so far.

Of course, I've had preorders held up at Coolstuff or Miniaturemarket forever due to production delays, so a couple weeks seems pretty minor to me.
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Andrew Tullsen
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Just want to say that I got mine today, (Fedex Home Delivery) wasn't super well packed, but the box was really sturdy and there was no box damage. A few counters did have the edges peeling, but for me that's not a big deal at all. A little disappointed that preorders (via GameSalute) got delivered before my kickstarter one, but again, it's not a huge deal.
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Dan Patriss
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sigmazero13 wrote:
gversace wrote:
Does it really matter that much whether it is delivered May 9th or May 2nd?

It matters to me that a company that is shipping stuff uses the worst possible shipping method, waits 2 weeks to even send it out, and then not pack the materials for shipping.

Sure, it's just a game, and yes, I've been waiting a long time already. But my complaints are based on the relative service level. GameSalute is thus-far the absolute WORST company I've received a board game shipment from, and as such, they will not be getting more of my business later if I can avoid it in any way.

EDIT: Just an emphasis that my dislike is for GameSalute, NOT Red Raven Games


I disagree about game salute. Those guys are absolutely top notch, and I have gotten a TON of things from them so far.

I would like to know what exactly they are at fault for here?

Let's look at the complaints for the game.

First the delay. Look at the history of the game on KS.

It KNEW it was funded on OCt 19th (That was his we are funded update, I don't know the exact date it went over the top). So by then you know you are going to need a print run. And by looking at the pics he kept posting he had a VERY workable prototype and was basically ready to go. That's basically what drove people to the project.

The next thing that needed to be done was to get in the proofs and choose the product size/stock and box to be put in (Which he updated in Dec but there were immages around earlier then that). That's ALL on him. He has final say on those. He could have made sure it all went into a box that was more appropriate for it, like a Sid Meir's Civ (FF) box. Instead it's undersized for the product.

The next update wasn't until early Feb. I am fairly sure he would have known about the production delay before then. He dropped the ball not telling people a single thing for a month. Fine and dandy it happens I guess he apologized so no biggie.

Then in April he had copies at PAX and put up a promo for a game which was not available yet. That seemed to anger people who were anxiously waiting on their paid for copy.

And then now in May things are arriving. And now you are complaining about Game Salute who is the distributor and not the creator or manufacturer.

So I ask you. At what point in ALL of this is it GS's fault? Did they choose to take their time getting the proofs to the printer? Did they choose the smaller then needed box? Did they send out the updates to the backers?

Please help me to understand a single reason why this is Game Salute's fault in the least.
 
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Scott Lewis
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GeekJock wrote:
So I ask you. At what point in ALL of this is it GS's fault?

1) The game arrived at the warehouse on April 19th. Any other distributer I've bought stuff from online in the past would have had it mailed out within a few days (often the NEXT day). GameSalute took TWO WEEKS to send out my copy, with absolutely NO communication as to what was taking so long to do so.

2) When they finally DID send it out, they send it via the worst possible shipping method I can think of - FedEx SmartPost. With that method, it seems to sit around in various hubs for several days before moving onto the next. What could have been a 2-3 day delivery had taken over a week now.

3) Other retailers I've bought from just send out the pre-orders as they can, often, I assume, in the order the order was received. GameSalute, on the other hand, DELIBERATELY withheld orders to try and send them to the places further out first. This probably led at least in part to #1.

4) When I did get the email from them, it didn't have any information other than a tracking number. Had I had several orders from them, I wouldn't have had any clue which this one was.

5) I haven't received mine, but from what others have said, they didn't anything in the packages to protect them during shipping. I would expect a company such as this to do what they can to ensure that the item arrived without damage. Many people (most people?) have been lucky enough to not have damage, but many have complained about damaged boxes because there was no protection.


You may have had a good experience with them. I have not, and will never be using them. There are plenty of other online retailers to choose from that have offered me good service in the past that I will continue to use.

The thing that has irked me hasn't been the wait for the game to be published; I'm used to that with most my pre-orders that I've made. It's what happened AFTER GameSalute received the shipment of Empires of the Void that has left a very bad impression with me. (And looking at comments from other people, this isn't an isolated incident, so while you may have had a good experience with them, there are certainly MANY people who have found them to be lacking).
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Frank Müller
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My thanks to Ryan Laukat too. I got the game today. Great material and a joy to look at. I hope that I can play it soon.
 
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Chris Hansen
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The only fault I can lay on GameSalute is the lack of packing material used in the boxes. That really is like playing Russian Roulette that your contents won't get damaged. Yes it is cheaper to not have to use slightly larger boxes and some packing material, but often that extra cost is worth it to have your items arrive in good condition and have happy customers.

As for whether that little situation is GameSalute's fault for being cheap, or Ryan's for telling them to ship them out as cheaply as possible, I don't know. One or both of them may want to reconsider how they are doing their packaging. Most people seem to have gotten lucky and received there game boxes undamaged, so they 'mostly' dodged that bullet...save for some like the OP.

On the other hand the actual game itself, it's artwork, components and rules look like they will add up to some very fun game play, and that will trump any poor choices made regarding shipping. And I'm willing to forgive him that as well since he is obviously showing very good customer service to those who do have issues.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Ichirou wrote:
As for whether that little situation is GameSalute's fault for being cheap, or Ryan's for telling them to ship them out as cheaply as possible, I don't know.

From another thread, GameSalute seemed to say directly that THEY chose the shipping method, supposedly based on discussion with a representative. I'm not sure what other research methods they used, but I can't imagine it was much, since they seemed genuinely surprised at the delays, indicating they shipped using SmartPost without even knowing what it was.

And from what I can tell, SmartPost is more expensive than regular USPS, yet much slower.
 
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Peter O
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It's too bad there are several negative threads going on right now but once the game gets played all will be forgotten.


EotV is a very enjoyable game, the face doesn't lie.



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Arden Nelson Jr.
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I got my game in great condition. I've read through the rules, prepared the game to be played and even set it up ... but haven't had time to play just yet. From what I can see this is going to be a hit for me and a number of people in my group. My schedule won't allow me to play this for over a week ... but I'll be reviewing the rules and technology to get ready for my first game.
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