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Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Another (quick!) Mana Draw question... rss

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Luke Jackson
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Hello!

Just after a quick clarification.

Can the die take from the source using the strong effect of Mana Draw be SET to black?

Found one post here saying yes, but was just wondering if this was officially correct, and that black IS a (non-basic)colour...

Thanks!
 
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Filip Murmak
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Yes it can.

Not during the Day though, unless you've played Amulet of Darkness before it or you're in a Dungeon or Tomb when doing so.
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David desJardins
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You are wondering if black is a color?
 
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Jeff Thompson
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DaviddesJ wrote:
You are wondering if black is a color?


He is wondering if he can take black as a mana token.

Black mana crystal pieces exist, however it is impossible to ever take one of these and put it into your inventory.

David, I think it was you in an earlier post that wished for separate mana token chits. If the crystals only came in 4 colors and the token chits came in 6 colors, that would have made things clearer.
 
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Michael Commorato
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Tompy wrote:

He is wondering if he can take black as a mana token.



Am I missing something?
'Mana Token'? What is that?
 
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David desJardins
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mercom wrote:
Am I missing something?
'Mana Token'? What is that?


Really? Mana tokens are the colored plastic bits that come in the box. Their use is described on page 5 of the rulebook, under "Using Mana".
 
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Jeff Thompson
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mercom wrote:
Tompy wrote:

He is wondering if he can take black as a mana token.



Am I missing something?
'Mana Token'? What is that?


USING MANA
1. There are four basic colors of mana in the game (red, blue,
white and green). The mana can be in two forms:
a. Pure mana. This is represented by a mana die or by a mana
token in a player’s play area
. When gained, it has to be used
before the end of the player’s turn, or it disappears.
b. Crystals. These are represented by a mana token in the
player’s Inventory (on his Hero card). Up to three tokens of
each basic color can be stored there.
• A crystal can be turned into pure mana at any moment of
a player’s turn. Pure mana cannot be turned into crystals
unless an effect says so

Unfortunately the rules seem to refer to "Mana Tokens" as those bits of plastic in your play area you accumulate but only last through the end of your current turn.

It would have been a lot clearer if all the "objects" of the game had clearly unique identifiers and were represented by separate physical components.

(I'm guessing Vlaada is not a computer programmer.)
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Jamie Riehl
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When it is in your inventory it is a mana crystal. Lasts until used. Can't be black or gold, 3 max of any one color.

When it is in your play area it is a mana token. Lasts until end of turn. Can be black or gold, no max.
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Jeff Thompson
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camipco wrote:
When it is in your inventory it is a mana crystal. Lasts until used. Can't be black or gold, 3 max of any one color.

When it is in your play area it is a mana token. Lasts until end of turn. Can be black or gold, no max.


The problem here is that the rule snippet I pasted describes those plastic bits as "mana tokens", so the label "mana token" takes on 2 meanings, first the plastic bits, and second the temporary "pure mana" in your play area.

I personally think like you. The three elements are Crystals, Tokens and colored plastic components to represent them.
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Michael Commorato
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DaviddesJ wrote:
mercom wrote:
Am I missing something?
'Mana Token'? What is that?


Really? Mana tokens are the colored plastic bits that come in the box. Their use is described on page 5 of the rulebook, under "Using Mana".


Yes, really.

I was looking for a 'token', not a Crystal or a Die.
However I see the explanation was given by others.

Thank you.
 
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Paul Grogan
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When I am demoing, I call them 'bits of plastic'.

They can represent two different things.

If they are on your character card, they are crystals.
If they are somewhere in front of you, not on your character card, they are mana tokens.

It does seem that a number of people think that having a different bit of plastic to represent the different things would be better, but for me, it would actually be more confusing, require twice as many components.

As I say, it seems really simple to me, maybe I just got it into my head right at the start and it has stuck.
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Jeff Thompson
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PaulGrogan wrote:
When I am demoing, I call them 'bits of plastic'.

They can represent two different things.

If they are on your character card, they are crystals.
If they are somewhere in front of you, not on your character card, they are mana tokens.

It does seem that a number of people think that having a different bit of plastic to represent the different things would be better, but for me, it would actually be more confusing, require twice as many components.

As I say, it seems really simple to me, maybe I just got it into my head right at the start and it has stuck.


I think the confusion (for me anyway) comes from the fact that the rules call the "bits of plastic" "Mana Tokens". Then later while playing the game, the cards say to create "Mana Tokens".

After processing the rules, the word "Mana Token" becomes confusing.

Furthermore in a game where the rules are superseded by the cards, a card that says, "Create a Crystal of any color" can be confusing because there are 6 colors of "Mana Tokens" that are used to represent Crystals in the inventory. But in reality the black and gold "Mana Tokens" are only for use in representing "Mana Tokens".

Have I confused everyone yet? If so, then just read the quoted bit above and stop reading my posts on the topic. I'm gonna stop here before I confuse myself.
 
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Michael Commorato
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Yes, it's in my head now!

After just posting that I received a 'perfect copy' now I'm reading about Mana 'Tokens' and, of course, thought I missed something.
They're not even mentioned in the Game Components (because they don't exist in 'token' form.)

Got it!
 
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Filip Murmak
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Tompy wrote:
mercom wrote:
Tompy wrote:

He is wondering if he can take black as a mana token.



Am I missing something?
'Mana Token'? What is that?


USING MANA
1. There are four basic colors of mana in the game (red, blue,
white and green). The mana can be in two forms:
a. Pure mana. This is represented by a mana die or by a mana
token in a player’s play area
. When gained, it has to be used
before the end of the player’s turn, or it disappears.
b. Crystals. These are represented by a mana token in the
player’s Inventory (on his Hero card). Up to three tokens of
each basic color can be stored there.
• A crystal can be turned into pure mana at any moment of
a player’s turn. Pure mana cannot be turned into crystals
unless an effect says so

Unfortunately the rules seem to refer to "Mana Tokens" as those bits of plastic in your play area you accumulate but only last through the end of your current turn.

It would have been a lot clearer if all the "objects" of the game had clearly unique identifiers and were represented by separate physical components.

(I'm guessing Vlaada is not a computer programmer.)


FYI Vlaada spent 15 years programming and designing video games

With project as big as MK and time deadlines which needed to be met game ballance was a little bit of bigger importance than making wording bullet proof. Also there's the case of translating walls of text to English. All this was discussed in many other threads, so please lets move on.
 
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Jeff Thompson
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As an American it is my proud privilege to disregard the concept of "translation" as unnecessary because everyone speaks English. (This is sarcasm and I'm making fun of Americans here.)

Thanks for the information. Now I clearly see it as a translation issue.
 
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Luke Jackson
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Thanks everyone.

Actually had assumed (and played as if) I could set black as the colour of the token. Just had a brief moment of doubt when I wondered, as David guessed, if black was actually a colour! Wondering if it was one of those rulings that everyone just knows, and that the cards/rules never have to spell out.

Oh well. Over-thought it. Back to trying to win a solo game.
 
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Danny Frahm
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mercom wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
mercom wrote:
Am I missing something?
'Mana Token'? What is that?


Really? Mana tokens are the colored plastic bits that come in the box. Their use is described on page 5 of the rulebook, under "Using Mana".


Yes, really.

I was looking for a 'token', not a Crystal or a Die.
However I see the explanation was given by others.

Thank you.


I had the same thought and was searching the box for these "tokens". Then I just said, "let's just use the crystals instead"
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