Xander Fulton
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On Wednesday in Oklahoma...

Quote:
I believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman.


...and then in an interview in Colorado:

Quote:
And I do not favor civil unions if they are identical to marriage other than by name.


Really? Opposition to civil unions, now, too?
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This will probably get lost in any sort of "discussion" in this thread, but what exactly is the threat of same-sex marriage?

Is it "because the bible says so" the deepest answer out there?

If Jim and Bob decide to cross swords for the rest of their life, and want to call it marriage, how does it hurt me when I decide to get married?

In all the threads that come up about this, I've never really seen a reason or argument why we must prohibit same-sex marriage.

Considering there are churches which will sanction it, what does it matter?
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Matt
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Quote:
what exactly is the threat of same-sex marriage?

I think its really all about money? Specifically paying out benefits and providing health insurance to domestic partners. I'm not sure how it works myself but are employers who provide health care insurance required to support domestic partners?
 
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Marc P
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If I owned a company, I would totally recruit all of the talented gay people from other companies by offering benefits, if that's what it came down to.
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Matt
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Drew1365 wrote:
slowcorner wrote:
If I owned a company, I would totally recruit all of the talented gay people from other companies by offering benefits, if that's what it came down to.


Of course, with the Obama economy being what it is, your company would probably fold under the crushing weight of federal regulations.


Sorry Slowcorner your all gay fracking crew will just have to wait until we are truly free to pollute our neighbors ground water.
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Dave G
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Drew1365 wrote:
slowcorner wrote:
If I owned a company, I would totally recruit all of the talented gay people from other companies by offering benefits, if that's what it came down to.


Of course, with the Obama economy being what it is, your company would probably fold under the crushing weight of federal regulations.


Don't open up in Wisconsin, you'd have certain BGGers and their compatriots standing outside your gates protesting your company for ruining the social fabric of their community.
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COMPNOR wrote:
This will probably get lost in any sort of "discussion" in this thread, but what exactly is the threat of same-sex marriage?


If you believe that man has dominion over all things, and a marriage is to reflect that by having a man dominant over a woman, then everything gets screwed up if two men or two women marry. It means that potentially subservient women will look to homosexual marriages as examples of how not all women must be dominated and not all men must dominate their partners.
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Morgan Dontanville
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Drew1365 wrote:
slowcorner wrote:
If I owned a company, I would totally recruit all of the talented gay people from other companies by offering benefits, if that's what it came down to.


Of course, with the Obama economy being what it is, your company would probably fold under the crushing weight of federal regulations.


Which is totally why every single company in America is currently bankrupt from crushing regulations.


...wait, are you for or against employer based benefits?
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Drew1365 wrote:
slowcorner wrote:
If I owned a company, I would totally recruit all of the talented gay people from other companies by offering benefits, if that's what it came down to.


Of course, with the Obama economy being what it is, your company would probably fold under the crushing weight of federal regulations.


You only seem to discuss this topic as it relates to how much Obama sucks. Do you actually have a stance on gay marriage one way or another?
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Xander Fulton
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COMPNOR wrote:
Is it "because the bible says so" the deepest answer out there?


Yes.

Although, since Romney has clarified his opposition to include 'civil unions if they are identical to marriage', this may also include some financial element as well, possibly.

But that's pretty new. By and large, MANY social conservatives have taken the recent position to oppose gay marriage, but allow same-sex civil unions...which provide effectively the same financial benefits/impact vs 'marriage', nullifying financial matters as a component in this. Thus, leaving it really no more or less complicated than "because god says so".
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sisteray wrote:
COMPNOR wrote:
This will probably get lost in any sort of "discussion" in this thread, but what exactly is the threat of same-sex marriage?


If you believe that man has dominion over all things, and a marriage is to reflect that by having a man dominant over a woman, then everything gets screwed up if two men or two women marry. It means that potentially subservient women will look to homosexual marriages as examples of how not all women must be dominated and not all men must dominate their partners.


Wasn't that what the whole women's movement and bra burning thing for? For women to show they don't have to be dominated?

I generally like to think I'm able to see all sides of an argument, but this one just baffles me.
 
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COMPNOR wrote:
sisteray wrote:
COMPNOR wrote:
This will probably get lost in any sort of "discussion" in this thread, but what exactly is the threat of same-sex marriage?


If you believe that man has dominion over all things, and a marriage is to reflect that by having a man dominant over a woman, then everything gets screwed up if two men or two women marry. It means that potentially subservient women will look to homosexual marriages as examples of how not all women must be dominated and not all men must dominate their partners.


Wasn't that what the whole women's movement and bra burning thing for? For women to show they don't have to be dominated?

I generally like to think I'm able to see all sides of an argument, but this one just baffles me.


It took 50 years from the Women's Suffrage movement to even get to what you are talking about, but that doesn't mean that the men who hold the power are all that willing to yield it.

The feminist movement in the 60s was to show that some women didn't want to be dominated and that they shouldn't have to be. It still took another 20 years from that point before it was illegal for a man to rape his wife.

If someone wants to be subservient that is their business, but the most loudest voices against gay marriage are those that want to maintain their power in their tiny empires. They feel that they have lost control in all other ways, and now the one thing that they have dominion over is being stripped away from them. You can't even beat your wife anymore without going to jail. Imagine that.


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Chad Ellis
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Going back to the OP:

Romney isn't opposed to civil unions "now". AFAIK he's held the same position for quite a while:

1. No same-sex marriage.
2. No same-sex civil union that is functionally identical to marriage.
3. Yes to a set of core rights, including things like hospital visitation.

So basically Romney would say that NC went too far (since it banned any legal status for non-married domestic partnerships) but that civil unions that are identical to marriage should be opposed.
 
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Matt
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Drew1365 wrote:
MaximumPain wrote:
Sorry Slowcorner your all gay fracking crew will just have to wait until we are truly free to pollute our neighbors ground water.


Oh, seriously? Republicans are going to poison us all? That's from the 1988 political handbook, dude! Possibly earlier.


Did I even mention republicans? Also Im sure the affluent areas will be free of ground water pollution from mining and drilling.. or they can have bottled water shipped in so yeah I guess there is no need for regulations.
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Drew1365 wrote:
spoon wrote:
You only seem to discuss this topic as it relates to how much Obama sucks.


Apparently you didn't notice you're in a thread discussing this topic as it relates to how much Romney sucks.

What does Romney sucking have to do with Obama sucking? They can both suck equally and independently.

I've just noticed that you've commented quite a bit in these threads without actually making a statement as to how you feel about the issue.


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spoon wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
spoon wrote:
You only seem to discuss this topic as it relates to how much Obama sucks.


Apparently you didn't notice you're in a thread discussing this topic as it relates to how much Romney sucks.

What does Romney sucking have to do with Obama sucking? They can both suck equally and independently.

I've just noticed that you've commented quite a bit in these threads without actually making a statement as to how you feel about the issue.




The talking points haven't told him how he feels yet. Just wait, soon enough I'm sure that there will be an article that he can link to.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
slowcorner wrote:
If I owned a company, I would totally recruit all of the talented gay people from other companies by offering benefits, if that's what it came down to.


Of course, with the Obama economy being what it is, your company would probably fold under the crushing weight of federal regulations.


Pay attention man! This is not the Obama economy, this is the Two Shoe George economy. This is what you voted for man.
 
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Chad_Ellis wrote:

So basically Romney would say that NC went too far (since it banned any legal status for non-married domestic partnerships) but that civil unions that are identical to marriage should be opposed.


Ten - no, twenty - bucks says he doesn't criticize the NC result even in these terms until after the election, if ever.
 
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kamchatka wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:

So basically Romney would say that NC went too far (since it banned any legal status for non-married domestic partnerships) but that civil unions that are identical to marriage should be opposed.


Ten - no, twenty - bucks says he doesn't criticize the NC result even in these terms until after the election, if ever.


Might be an interesting bet. Given Romney's campaign apparently reached out to North Carolina to make a campaign stop there the same day Obama came out in favor of pro-gay marriage, and a day after NC passed their anti-gay (-marriage and civil union) amendment.

Granted, he didn't specifically say ANYTHING about the topic du jour, although the timing made it ridiculous to think this was any kind of coincidence...

...courting both sides, much, Romney?
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
slowcorner wrote:
If I owned a company, I would totally recruit all of the talented gay people from other companies by offering benefits, if that's what it came down to.


Of course, with the Obama economy being what it is, your company would probably fold under the crushing weight of federal regulations.


I did my usual eye-roll, and then stopped short, and asked, "what the hell is an Obama economy?" I don't recall you throwing the term Bush economy around back in the day. (Well, there were the Bush tax cuts, but you can't deny that he championed that concept.) It's the economy. It belongs to the Fed and to Congress much more than it does to the president. Unless you're complaining about his cabinet doing their jobs by actually enforcing regulations that have been on the books for years.

And as far as the crushing weight of federal regulations, how different, really, are things from how they were a few years ago, for most businesses?
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LeeDambis wrote:
If you find that Romney has made a statement with which you disagree then just wait a couple of weeks. One of his half-dozen clarifications and re-clarifications will probably make you less unhappy. Repeat as often as necessary until election day.


Thursday: Mitt Romney says "I know many gay couples that are able to adopt children. That’s fine... And if two people of the same gender want to live together, want to have a loving relationship, or even to adopt a child — in my state, individuals of the same sex were able to adopt children. In my view, that’s something that people have a right to do."

The next day: Mitt Romney says "Well, actually I think all states but one allow gay adoption, so that’s a position which has been decided by most of the state legislatures, including the one in my state some time ago. So I simply acknowledge the fact that gay adoption is legal in all states but one."
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Drew1365 wrote:

It was "Bush's economy" in 2008, when Congress was controlled by the Democrats. Will you agree that the Democrats are actually to blame for the economic downturn?


110th Congress 2007–2009

Senate
Dems:49

Reps:49

Others:2

House
Dems:233

Reps:198

Vacant:2


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html


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