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Subject: New Android...Living Card Game rss

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Mike Cathcart
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I heard FFG was re-releasing Netrunner but didn't realize it was getting the Android brand. Very cool!
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Paul Brillantes
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I was able to hold off on Netrunner since I missed it on the initial pass but I don't think I can resist it this time.

Damn you FFG. Damn you to Hell!
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Pedro Pereira
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Pitty it's a LCG... that reads "Lacking Charisma for (real) Gamers" to me. I hate the LCGs. A pity, cause I really like Android.

Certainly not getting this one.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Pedrator wrote:
Pitty it's a LCG... that reads "Lacking Charisma for (real) Gamers" to me. I hate the LCGs. A pity, cause I really like Android.

Pedro, I am curious what you would have preferred?
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Pedro Pereira
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If it had to be a card-game I would have much preferred a card game that wouldn't get to be injected with tons of booster packs expansions which you'd have to buy maybe two copies of the same if you wanted to have a particular card repeated in your playing deck... a problem that has been discussed a lot in other threads.

I tried Cthulu and had the chance to play A Game of Thrones LCGs and it's much the same as a CCGs

Interesting would have been an expansion for the Android board game. Maybe something entirely different than a murder story, where you could use the favour tokens for different purposes and in which all the locations would have a more integrated role in the unfolding of new storylines for the old characters and maybe 2 or 3 new characters...

The great thing about Android is having the potential to unfold into so many different things thanks to the board and the fact that it is story-driven, the sad thing about FFG is that they have only managed to come up with a remake of something old and turning it into an LCG

But hey! I get it, they need to make the money...

EDIT: Typos
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Ryan McLelland
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Pedrator wrote:
If it had to be a card-game I would have much preferred a card game that wouldn't get to be injected with tons of booster packs expansions which you'd have to buy maybe two copies of the same if you wanted to have a particular card repeated in your playing deck... a problem that has been discussed a lot in other threads.

I tried Cthulu and had the chance to play A Game of Thrones LCGs and it's much the same as a CCGs

Interesting would have been an expansion for the Android board game. Maybe something entirely different than a murder story, where you could use the favour tokens for different purposes and in which all the locations would have a more integrated role in the unfolding of new storylines for the old characters and maybe 2 or 3 new characters...

The great thing about Android is having the potential to unfold into so many different things thanks to the board and the fact that it is story-driven, the sad thing about FFG is that they have only managed to come up with a remake of something old and turning it into an LCG

But hey! I get it, they need to make the money...

EDIT: Typos


You are focusing on the Android label, where most others are focusing on the Netrunner label. Netrunner was a CCG, so the LCG format makes a ton of sense. The merging of the two properties is interesting, but Netrunner really has to be a card game.
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Pedro Pereira
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RyanMC wrote:
You are focusing on the Android label, where most others are focusing on the Netrunner label.


Yes I'm focusing on the Android label because I subscribed to the Android board-game, so perhaps this thread should have been posted in the Netrunner page instead?
 
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Jason Birzer
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Pedrator wrote:
RyanMC wrote:
You are focusing on the Android label, where most others are focusing on the Netrunner label.


Yes I'm focusing on the Android label because I subscribed to the Android board-game, so perhaps this thread should have been posted in the Netrunner page instead?


There is a thread there. (11 pages and counting) I'm guessing someone posted it here so that fans of Android could see this as well.
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José San Miguel
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sdiberar wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
Pitty it's a LCG... that reads "Lacking Charisma for (real) Gamers" to me. I hate the LCGs. A pity, cause I really like Android.

Pedro, I am curious what you would have preferred?


Indeed, what format would be more suitable to republish a CCG?
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Pedrator wrote:
If it had to be a card-game I would have much preferred a card game that wouldn't get to be injected with tons of booster packs expansions which you'd have to buy maybe two copies of the same if you wanted to have a particular card repeated in your playing deck... a problem that has been discussed a lot in other threads.

I tried Cthulu and had the chance to play A Game of Thrones LCGs and it's much the same as a CCGs

Interesting would have been an expansion for the Android board game. Maybe something entirely different than a murder story, where you could use the favour tokens for different purposes and in which all the locations would have a more integrated role in the unfolding of new storylines for the old characters and maybe 2 or 3 new characters...

The great thing about Android is having the potential to unfold into so many different things thanks to the board and the fact that it is story-driven, the sad thing about FFG is that they have only managed to come up with a remake of something old and turning it into an LCG

But hey! I get it, they need to make the money...

EDIT: Typos


Thanks for your answer, Pedro. I was just curious.

Note that in the LCG model, the "core set" contains enough to play the game satisfactorily, though of course without all that much deckbuilding. To keep costs down they have up to now not come with a full complement of cards, necessitating buying multiple cores if you really want a full playset (not required, of course). However, the LCG expansions now come with the full complement of copies and no multiples are required. But! If you really want to get all the cards, you're on the hook for $10/month plus the occasional big box expansion.

I guess it comes down to whether the core set would be a complete enough experience. There is no absolute need to buy expansions (think of it like any boardgame expansion).

Note: We are all assuming at this point that A:NR will follow the usual FFG LCG model.
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Evan
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And if there was ever a game that made a case for the viability of just buying the core set, it's Netrunner.

But even if you're just completely not interested in anything vaguely collectible-esque (and the line is getting blurrier every day...if it didn't have an official stopping point, I'd swear that Dominion was an LCG), look at it this way: the more of this stuff they do, the better it is for Android. I used to be pretty pessimistic, but as of now we're looking at five novels and two of the most staggeringly high-profile sequels one could hope for. Even if they don't release an expansion (and they probably won't), I'd be pretty surprised to see them lavish this kind of attention on the universe without at least considering the possibility of doing a second edition someday.

So in short, even if you don't want to buy it, tell your friends to
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Gábor Koszper
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Pedrator wrote:
If it had to be a card-game I would have much preferred a card game that wouldn't get to be injected with tons of booster packs expansions which you'd have to buy maybe two copies of the same if you wanted to have a particular card repeated in your playing deck... a problem that has been discussed a lot in other threads.

I tried Cthulu and had the chance to play A Game of Thrones LCGs and it's much the same as a CCGs


How do you make a card game that can't be expanded?

Have you played Arkham Horror board game? It's not a card game, still gets miriads of expansions.

And you have a problem with an expandable concept, but still you would like to see an expansion to a game.
 
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Pedro Pereira
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algi wrote:
How do you make a card game that can't be expanded?

Have you played Arkham Horror board game? It's not a card game, still gets miriads of expansions.

And you have a problem with an expandable concept, but still you would like to see an expansion to a game.


I didn't say I don't like expansions.

Yes I owned and played Arkham Horror (traded it away for entirely different reasons).

I just don't like LCG or CCG, which is as legitimate as liking them. So I just gave my opinion as did anybody else, expressing my disappointment in the fact that this Android themed game is going to be an LCG. A question has been asked to which I answered. I'm not on a campaign against FFG or LCGs.

I own a few games and some of those have expansions and some of those expansions I own too.

As for card-games without expansions, there are some of which I own a few and really like and don't feel they need expansions, some others do have expansions and I own those too, but those do not have the collectible component.

I also owned Dominion which was nice but started losing interest in it as more and more expansions came out...

seriously now, it was just an opinion, not to be taken too seriously and I really appreciate Scott asking about what I'd be interested in, which I think was very thoughtful, especially since he's been such a gentleman in taking my opinions seriously and in the right way.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Pedrator wrote:
seriously now, it was just an opinion, not to be taken too seriously and I really appreciate Scott asking about what I'd be interested in, which I think was very thoughtful, especially since he's been such a gentleman in taking my opinions seriously and in the right way.

Thanks, Pedro, for taking my question seriously and in the light in which it was intended. The 'Geek could use more exchanges like this, and less like... well, ones that I all too often get into where it seems like scoring points with one-liners is more important. Sigh!
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Pedro Pereira
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Always a pleasure conducting discussions in gentlemanly fashion Scott.
 
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Tiago Nunes
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i had no interest in LCGs... that is UNTIL NOW. I just hope it's fun with just the core set (and maybe an occasional expansion if I do like the game).
 
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Enon Sci
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Jose-san wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
Pedrator wrote:
Pitty it's a LCG... that reads "Lacking Charisma for (real) Gamers" to me. I hate the LCGs. A pity, cause I really like Android.

Pedro, I am curious what you would have preferred?


Indeed, what format would be more suitable to republish a CCG?


The big box format of Dominion or Race for the Galaxy. Richard Garfield has publicly said that maybe the CCG format wasn't the best for this title.

'Course, that is what the LCG model is attempting to approximate, at least more so than the CCG card distribution model.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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Anarchosyn wrote:
The big box format of Dominion or Race for the Galaxy. Richard Garfield has publicly said that maybe the CCG format wasn't the best for this title.


Have to keep the price of the set low, to get new players in.
 
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pirate_chef wrote:
Anarchosyn wrote:
The big box format of Dominion or Race for the Galaxy. Richard Garfield has publicly said that maybe the CCG format wasn't the best for this title.


Have to keep the price of the set low, to get new players in.




Race for the Galaxy retails for less than FFG's Lord of the Rings LCG.

RftG: http://www.boardsandbits.com/product_info.php?products_id=20...

LotR LCG: http://www.boardsandbits.com/product_info.php?products_id=23...
 
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Double Plus Undead
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Anarchosyn wrote:



Race for the Galaxy retails for less than FFG's Lord of the Rings LCG.

RftG: http://www.boardsandbits.com/product_info.php?products_id=20...

LotR LCG: http://www.boardsandbits.com/product_info.php?products_id=23...


Ohhhhhhh, okay. I thought you meant "big box", as in "the game and all of the expansions are sold in one big box". So, what you're suggesting is they only release a core set, with no expansions, correct?

If they didn't release any expansions that would disappoint a lot of players, for sure. If they tried to make up for it by shoving a bunch more cards in the core set, that will raise the price. The original game + expansions came to almost 600 cards, which would probably more than double the cost. (And this is assuming only one of each card...) But in any case, I think players would be disappointed if there weren't any expansions at all.
 
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Enon Sci
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pirate_chef wrote:


Ohhhhhhh, okay. I thought you meant "big box", as in "the game and all of the expansions are sold in one big box". So, what you're suggesting is they only release a core set, with no expansions, correct?

If they didn't release any expansions that would disappoint a lot of players, for sure. If they tried to make up for it by shoving a bunch more cards in the core set, that will raise the price. The original game + expansions came to almost 600 cards, which would probably more than double the cost. (And this is assuming only one of each card...) But in any case, I think players would be disappointed if there weren't any expansions at all.


As a kid I held deep antipathies against the CCG format as it seemed to encourage an almost endless expenditure of money to stay competitive. Like coin-op arcades and Garbage Pail Kids, I felt CCG's were an attractive money sink, but a sink nevertheless.

I came into this thread without a robust understanding of what really differentiated the CCG model from the LCG approach, and must admit my ignorance (mis)informed this commentary you're replying to. The LCG model is closer to the Race For the Galaxy model, and I'm happy to admit looks to be playable right out of the box for two much more so than CCGs ever seemed to be (were CCG starters ever geared for two back in the day? I only remember Magic The Gathering including cards for one, but I was young).

However, a slight distinction between the "big box" (as I call it) and LCG format still exist, and I'd have preferred Android: Netrunner to have fallen in the former. Chiefly, what I'll miss is the finely tuned, mathematically balanced, nature of card distribution/availability in decks. I'm a euro minded player, so I enjoy balance and elegance in my design. That said, it is what it is -- and it isn't like I don't also enjoy titles like Cosmic Encounter, Arkham and Talisman now and again. Android: Netrunner will be infinitely more balanced than any of those titles.

But I ask myself, are my "big box" expectations even realistic? Probably not. For one, I didn't know Netrunner had about 600 cards -- I thought the total was far less than that. Secondly, neither Race for the Galaxy nor Dominion are deck building titles in the same way as an LCG, and that added freedom limits this kind of mathematical fine tuning that I admire. For card distribution alone, the developers would have to anticipate a range of potential strategies that go faaaar beyond what FFG is capable of playtesting (i.e. for determining how many multiples of Card A vs. Card B to include in a deck, I mean). So, I guess upon reflection, I see your point. I just hate being on the hook for expansions (though only time will tell how necessary they'll be).

Mind you, I'm not the kind of player who will be taking his deck to school or tournaments and playing against a wide selection of players. Rather, in my old age, I'll probably just play with my group and my girlfriend, and neither will be buying sets of their own (at least neither group is aware of Netrunner enough to be planning so). Therefore, I probably will be able to ignore expansions if I choose and still find the product engaging for two whenever it gets taken out.
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A couple years later, it seems that android netrunner is a success.

Probably will never beat the popularity of MTG, but it certainly is getting bigger. In fact, it is the most popular Android game.
 
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