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Subject: Kickstarter ended with almost 925.000$ !! rss

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Witek W
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That was amazing - I was refreshing the page in last few minutes watching the number grows...
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I am seriously surprised that we didn't crash KS's servers, cause I was doing the same thing, and I know a *few* more folks were too!

-Brian
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Kelly Page
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Me too!
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David Valenze
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Guilty.
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Yeah! Incredible campaign ... nearly $925k with 5,512 Backers! Awesome!
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David Hoffman
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That was ridiculous. Now I have to, like, work or something.

Dammit.
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Tom
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who would have thought Ogre would be close to 1 million. If someone would have said that at the beginning I would have laughed so hard I would have peed my pants...Wow!
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godunow wrote:
That was amazing

Not that amazing, they tried charging me even though I cancelled some time ago.
 
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Aldaron wrote:
godunow wrote:
That was amazing

Not that amazing, they tried charging me even though I cancelled some time ago.


That's a likely story, please elaborate.
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Andrew Walters
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Kickstarter does all the charging automatically from their database of pledges. Maybe you meant to cancel but didn't complete the process, you know how some of those screens have little "Continue" buttons at the bottom even when you think you're done. But SJ Games didn't have anything to do with the charge at this point. If there was an error it was at KS.

BTW, Kickstarter gets 5%, I think, of the total. Another 3-ish% goes to credit card processing. Then SJ Games pays the sales tax and shipping (China to Texas, Texas to everywhere). Then they pay to get all that stuff printed and embroidered. Good think SJ likes Ogre, I think he's working for free. For a year.
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Andrew Walters
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Money aside, there were over 5,500 pledges. Thank goodness they used KS and didn't just print 3,000 copies. The 5,00 doesn't include distribution orders and a couple hundred secret orders that won't be talked about. That's six thousand copies, twice the initial print run.

And how many Ogre fans didn't order? Either they couldn't afford it, wanted to support their FLGS, didn't have the cash, didn't want to use KS, didn't have the money, wanted a smaller footprint edition, thought it was too expensive, or couldn't deal with the overseas shipping cost. I figure at least two fans who didn't get one for every fan that did.

So there are twelve to fifteen thousand Ogre fans in the world. That is the really good news.
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foggybottom wrote:
That's a likely story, please elaborate.

Right now I'm seeing if SJG and Kickstarter can sort it out.

I'll be sure to keep you posted.

CaptainCosmic wrote:
foggybottom wrote:
... please elaborate.

And you too.
 
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andreww wrote:
Kickstarter does all the charging automatically from their database of pledges. Maybe you meant to cancel but didn't complete the process, you know how some of those screens have little "Continue" buttons at the bottom even when you think you're done. But SJ Games didn't have anything to do with the charge at this point. If there was an error it was at KS.

BTW, Kickstarter gets 5%, I think, of the total. Another 3-ish% goes to credit card processing. Then SJ Games pays the sales tax and shipping (China to Texas, Texas to everywhere). Then they pay to get all that stuff printed and embroidered. Good think SJ likes Ogre, I think he's working for free. For a year.


Are you sure they aren't making a profit somehow? I can't believe they aren't goin to see any of that almost 1 million smackers.

So is this a success for SJG's or would they have made more money just printing 3000?
 
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Philip Reed
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I am sure there will be some profit. We won't know how much until we finish the entire project in November or so.
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I think they'll make money. Just a surprisingly small amount, and certainly less than they would if they'd spent the same time doing a dice game or Munchkin Chick Flick or anything that would have sold ten thousand at regular margins. I don't have inside info everyone else doesn't have, but I like talking about the game industry so let me take an irresponsible stab at this...

Phil said that if they used their normal pricing model this would be a $300 game. He's also hinted, elsewhere that printing is 10-11%. So, swag aside, $100 is $5 to KS, $3 to the credit cards, $6 to the state of Texas, and at least $15 to ship it to you (assuming Fed Ex gave them a 25% discount). Let's say printing is $33. That's $62 going to other people. This is a great project for anyone that's not at SJ Games, because they're getting their normal rates. So $38 is left, times six thousand copies. That's $228,000.

Except someone said something about six shipping containers, and they're, crudely, $5,000 each. Let's say that cost brings it right to the doors. Where are they going to put six forty foot shipping containers? Not our problem. Good luck, Phil! But that's another $30,0000.

So $198,000 to pay for the outside artists (who don't get paid much), the production artists, print buying, the layout people, editors. I'd guess they'll spend $5,000 on outside art (more from Winchell Chung!). Inside I bet it's twelve person-months of work. The game industry is not the place to get rich, but if you throw in overhead and benefits I bet that's $50,000. We're down to $143,000.

Except that someone has to handle all those boxes. I suspect everyone at SJ Games, regardless of their pay grade, is going to drop everything else and spend November checking orders. I figure at ten minutes per order it's a thousand hours work to be done in 20 business days, so at least six people spend a month on this, and nothing else. That's another $25,000.

We forgot the free copies. Zombicide, D-Day Dice, game industry VIPs, some other unpaid copies. I'm guessing two hundred copies; I have reasons for that number, but I don't want to talk about them. We need to subtract out the $38 for those copies, that's $7600.

$110,400 to pay for Steve and Phil's time for a year. That's not living-on-ramen money, but it's not steak-every-night money, either. Well, maybe it is in Texas.

Of course, we're leaving out Phil's trip to China, but I bet there's some profit in the extras, too. $20 for a T-shirt is the going rate and they shouldn't pay much extra for shipping those.

So they're doing okay, but not rolling in benjamins. On the other hand, remember that if they'd sold three thousand copies the net would have been just $11,000, since the internal and overhead costs remain the same but revenue is half. Since Phil is on salary SJ would have lost money or barely broken even back at three thousand copies.

We're leaving out the cost of the app. That promise has to be kept without additional revenue, but it shouldn't cost much. Similarly, they're going to have to pour money into starting the miniatures up, and who knows how long it will take for that enterprise to pay for itself. They made a lot of promises for 2013 in the strech goals.

On the whole, I find the whole thing fascinating.
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I was on rapid refresh, but I did up my pledge (again) in the last 5 minutes. Congrats Phil and Steve and everyone else @SJG
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andreww wrote:
Of course, we're leaving out Phil's trip to China . . .


Which I will never forget. Just how does it sound like a good idea to build what is effectively a shack on a motorcycle and then take it on the freeway? Totally amazing experiences on the roads in China. The lanes are painted on the streets, but the traffic flows in EVERY direction at once. And they have traffic lights, but those are more of a "ooo, pretty lights" than something to be obeyed.

And the things learned on the tours will change how I plan and execute projects. This Ogre Kickstarter project has improved ALL of our releases going forward. I am totally coming back for Car Wars . . . but BEFORE we launch the Kickstarter project so that all of the headaches and challenges are out of the way. (Yeah, sure. There will likely be all new headaches and challenges associated with Car Wars.)
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PhilReed wrote:
I am totally coming back for Car Wars


YEAH!!
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I highly recommend the book Where Underpants Come From for an understanding of China's manufacturing and export. Not the same as trip there, but an important book in understanding today's world.
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PhilReed wrote:
This Ogre Kickstarter project has improved ALL of our releases going forward. I am totally coming back for Car Wars . . . but BEFORE we launch the Kickstarter project so that all of the headaches and challenges are out of the way. (Yeah, sure. There will likely be all new headaches and challenges associated with Car Wars.)

Beside Car Wars, what other projects do you think might be on the KS horizon for SJG?
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Robrob wrote:
PhilReed wrote:
This Ogre Kickstarter project has improved ALL of our releases going forward. I am totally coming back for Car Wars . . . but BEFORE we launch the Kickstarter project so that all of the headaches and challenges are out of the way. (Yeah, sure. There will likely be all new headaches and challenges associated with Car Wars.)

Beside Car Wars, what other projects do you think might be on the KS horizon for SJG?


Come on Knightmare Chess
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We actually talked Knightmare Chess during part of the drive in China. And that's all I can say for now . . .
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johnnyspys wrote:
who would have thought Ogre would be close to 1 million. If someone would have said that at the beginning I would have laughed so hard I would have peed my pants...Wow!


And they would have broken the $1M mark if they had a stretch goal for it.
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andreww wrote:

I think they'll make money. Just a surprisingly small amount, and certainly less than they would if they'd spent the same time doing a dice game or Munchkin Chick Flick or anything that would have sold ten thousand at regular margins. I don't have inside info everyone else doesn't have, but I like talking about the game industry so let me take an irresponsible stab at this...

Phil said that if they used their normal pricing model this would be a $300 game. He's also hinted, elsewhere that printing is 10-11%. So, swag aside, $100 is $5 to KS, $3 to the credit cards, $6 to the state of Texas, and at least $15 to ship it to you (assuming Fed Ex gave them a 25% discount). Let's say printing is $33. That's $62 going to other people. This is a great project for anyone that's not at SJ Games, because they're getting their normal rates. So $38 is left, times six thousand copies. That's $228,000.

Except someone said something about six shipping containers, and they're, crudely, $5,000 each. Let's say that cost brings it right to the doors. Where are they going to put six forty foot shipping containers? Not our problem. Good luck, Phil! But that's another $30,0000.

So $198,000 to pay for the outside artists (who don't get paid much), the production artists, print buying, the layout people, editors. I'd guess they'll spend $5,000 on outside art (more from Winchell Chung!). Inside I bet it's twelve person-months of work. The game industry is not the place to get rich, but if you throw in overhead and benefits I bet that's $50,000. We're down to $143,000.

Except that someone has to handle all those boxes. I suspect everyone at SJ Games, regardless of their pay grade, is going to drop everything else and spend November checking orders. I figure at ten minutes per order it's a thousand hours work to be done in 20 business days, so at least six people spend a month on this, and nothing else. That's another $25,000.

We forgot the free copies. Zombicide, D-Day Dice, game industry VIPs, some other unpaid copies. I'm guessing two hundred copies; I have reasons for that number, but I don't want to talk about them. We need to subtract out the $38 for those copies, that's $7600.

$110,400 to pay for Steve and Phil's time for a year. That's not living-on-ramen money, but it's not steak-every-night money, either. Well, maybe it is in Texas.

Of course, we're leaving out Phil's trip to China, but I bet there's some profit in the extras, too. $20 for a T-shirt is the going rate and they shouldn't pay much extra for shipping those.

So they're doing okay, but not rolling in benjamins. On the other hand, remember that if they'd sold three thousand copies the net would have been just $11,000, since the internal and overhead costs remain the same but revenue is half. Since Phil is on salary SJ would have lost money or barely broken even back at three thousand copies.

We're leaving out the cost of the app. That promise has to be kept without additional revenue, but it shouldn't cost much. Similarly, they're going to have to pour money into starting the miniatures up, and who knows how long it will take for that enterprise to pay for itself. They made a lot of promises for 2013 in the strech goals.

On the whole, I find the whole thing fascinating.


Sorry you reminded me of this
Quote:

So You Want A Day Off?
So you want a day off huh? Well, let's just take a look at what you're asking for ok?

There are 365 days per year, making that 52 weeks. You already have 2 days off per week, leaving just 261 days available for work. Since you already spend 16 hours each day away from work you've used up 170 days, leaving only 91 days left to work. You spend 30 minutes each day on coffee breaks which accounts for 23 days each year, now leaving only 68 days available. With a 1 hour lunch break each day, you used up another 46 days, leaving only 22 days available for work. You normally spend 2 days per year on sick leave, leaving you only 20 days per year available for work. We are off 5 holidays per year, so your available working time is down to 15 days.

Look, we generously give 14 days vacation per year which leaves only 1 day available for work and I'll be damned if you're gonna take that day off!

On a serious note from what I am hearing your "200 copies for media freebies" estimate might be on the high side. I think 50 people/media outlets will be lucky to get a free review/preview copy. It's pointless really, why advertise heavily for something that is already sold and you are not making more of, and really don't have a backstock of.
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andreww wrote:

Either they couldn't afford it ... didn't have the cash ... couldn't deal with the overseas shipping cost.


Was one of those

Could have got the game if the Kickstarter ended next week as wages will hit my account next Thursday. Spent the last couple of days trying to find some cash. Alas, money doesn't actually grow on trees.

Re edit: Well done btw to all involved.
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