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Subject: Several questions concerning change of Ally or Enemy status rss

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Bryan Graham
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1) Player A is allied with Emrok. Distress Call from Emrok is played. Player B defeats the invaders. I assume player B now becomes the ally and player A is kicked out?

2) Player A allied with Emrok; player B conquers Emrok; Distress Call from Emrok is played. Player C defeats the invaders. In this case, I assume player A is kicked out, and player C becomes the ally, but due to player B's enemy status, he still has control?

(Obviously these would apply to any "distress call" events, I picked Emrok at random)

3) Player A allies with Emrok; player B conquers Emrok; player B uses Peace Talks. Again, I assume this kicks player A out, and now player B is the ally?

4) Conversely, player A allies with Emrok, player B conquers Emrok; player A uses Insurrection. I assume this kicks player B out, and now player A is the enemy?


Game looks awesome btw. I can't wait to play it
 
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Ryan Laukat
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Broccoli wrote:
1) Player A is allied with Emrok. Distress Call from Emrok is played. Player B defeats the invaders. I assume player B now becomes the ally and player A is kicked out?

2) Player A allied with Emrok; player B conquers Emrok; Distress Call from Emrok is played. Player C defeats the invaders. In this case, I assume player A is kicked out, and player C becomes the ally, but due to player B's enemy status, he still has control?

(Obviously these would apply to any "distress call" events, I picked Emrok at random)

3) Player A allies with Emrok; player B conquers Emrok; player B uses Peace Talks. Again, I assume this kicks player A out, and now player B is the ally?

4) Conversely, player A allies with Emrok, player B conquers Emrok; player A uses Insurrection. I assume this kicks player B out, and now player A is the enemy?


Game looks awesome btw. I can't wait to play it


1)Player B is now the ally and player A loses allied status.

2)Distress Call makes the owning player lose control of the planet (the Distress Call token is placed on top of the player control tokens). So player B loses control until he can defeat the invaders. If player C came in to defeat the invaders, he would control the planet and be the new ally.

3)Yes, player B is the ally and player A loses ally status.

4)No, because Insurrection does not allow a player to take control of the planet. It only changes a token from ally to enemy. If Player A lost allied status and another player controlled the planet, he would have to remove his token from the planet (since only one enemy token is allowed on a planet).
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Bryan Graham
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mechanicalfish wrote:
Broccoli wrote:
1) Player A is allied with Emrok. Distress Call from Emrok is played. Player B defeats the invaders. I assume player B now becomes the ally and player A is kicked out?

2) Player A allied with Emrok; player B conquers Emrok; Distress Call from Emrok is played. Player C defeats the invaders. In this case, I assume player A is kicked out, and player C becomes the ally, but due to player B's enemy status, he still has control?

(Obviously these would apply to any "distress call" events, I picked Emrok at random)

3) Player A allies with Emrok; player B conquers Emrok; player B uses Peace Talks. Again, I assume this kicks player A out, and now player B is the ally?

4) Conversely, player A allies with Emrok, player B conquers Emrok; player A uses Insurrection. I assume this kicks player B out, and now player A is the enemy?


Game looks awesome btw. I can't wait to play it


1)Player B is now the ally and player A loses allied status.

2)Distress Call makes the owning player lose control of the planet (the Distress Call token is placed on top of the player control tokens). So player B loses control until he can defeat the invaders. If player C came in to defeat the invaders, he would control the planet and be the new ally.

So in this case, player C would "kick out" both the Enemy and the Ally?
mechanicalfish wrote:

3)Yes, player B is the ally and player A loses ally status.

4)No, because Insurrection does not allow a player to take control of the planet. It only changes a token from ally to enemy. If Player A lost allied status and another player controlled the planet, he would have to remove his token from the planet (since only one enemy token is allowed on a planet).

I find it curious that if you flip from enemy to ally, you kick out any existing allies, but if you flip from ally to enemy, any other enemies kick you out. That doesn't seem intuitive.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Broccoli wrote:

I find it curious that if you flip from enemy to ally, you kick out any existing allies, but if you flip from ally to enemy, any other enemies kick you out. That doesn't seem intuitive.

You never stack "enemy" tokens; only the most recent enemy conquerer matters. IE, there would be no point in leaving the other enemy token there.
 
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Bryan Graham
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Broccoli wrote:

I find it curious that if you flip from enemy to ally, you kick out any existing allies, but if you flip from ally to enemy, any other enemies kick you out. That doesn't seem intuitive.

You never stack "enemy" tokens; only the most recent enemy conquerer matters. IE, there would be no point in leaving the other enemy token there.

I'm not talking about leaving the enemy there. Read what I said again. If you flip from enemy to ally, YOU kick out any existing allies. However, if flip from ally to enemy, THEY kick you out.

My issue isn't that someone gets kicked out; in fact, I'd expect that. My issue is that in one case, the "new guy" kicks out the "old guy", and in the other case, it's vice versa.
 
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Scott Awesome
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Well, why wouldn't the newer, stronger, occupation force kick out the older group or ambassadors and diplomats that got left behind if they suddenly got uppity?
 
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Broccoli wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
Broccoli wrote:

I find it curious that if you flip from enemy to ally, you kick out any existing allies, but if you flip from ally to enemy, any other enemies kick you out. That doesn't seem intuitive.

You never stack "enemy" tokens; only the most recent enemy conquerer matters. IE, there would be no point in leaving the other enemy token there.

I'm not talking about leaving the enemy there. Read what I said again. If you flip from enemy to ally, YOU kick out any existing allies. However, if flip from ally to enemy, THEY kick you out.

My issue isn't that someone gets kicked out; in fact, I'd expect that. My issue is that in one case, the "new guy" kicks out the "old guy", and in the other case, it's vice versa.

I'm not sure either of those situations is an "old guy kicking the new guy out".

If you flip from enemy to ally, kicking out the existing ally, you MUST be the new guy; otherwise, you wouldn't have had an enemy token there (IE, the only way your enemy token is there in this case is if you conquer a player-allied world).

If you flip from ally to enemy, and you are kicked out because of it, again the "new guy" is the one kicking you out, since the only way this could happen is if you were allied and then another player came in and conquered it (putting their enemy token on top of your ally token).

If you had conquered (not allied with) the planet first, and then another player comes along to conquer (and/or liberate) it, your token would be removed, so in this case there would be no way for you (as the old guy) to kick out the new guy - you'd have to come back in and become the NEW "new guy" to do so

Unless there's a situation I'm missing, I don't think there's a way for the "old guy" to be a non-ally, then becoming an ally and kicking the "new guy" out.
 
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Bryan Graham
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I guess I should clarify what I meant when I said "new guy" and "old guy". What I was referring to wasn't with respect whose token had been on the planet longest, I was referring to the sudden instance of two of the same token on a planet.

If there are currently an enemy token and ally token on the planet, and you change the ally token to an enemy, you now (temporarily) have 2 enemy tokens on the planet, and that has to be resolved. From the perspective of resolving this problem, the former-ally token is "new", because it wasn't an enemy token until just now. I admit, the physical token was on the planet first, but as an enemy token, it's "new". That's what I was referring to in my posts.

I guess the key to both questions 3 and 4 is that Peace Talks and Insurrection cannot change control of a planet.

However, it should be noted that with this ruling there comes an interesting use for Insurrection.

Player A allies with Emrok. Player B conquers Emrok. Player B flies off to do other things, and Player A sends a fleet to liberate Emrok. Just before he gets there, Player B plays Insurrection, resulting in Player A's ally token being removed. Now if Player A liberates Emrok, they have to ally all over again.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Broccoli wrote:
However, it should be noted that with this ruling there comes an interesting use for Insurrection.

Player A allies with Emrok. Player B conquers Emrok. Player B flies off to do other things, and Player A sends a fleet to liberate Emrok. Just before he gets there, Player B plays Insurrection, resulting in Player A's ally token being removed. Now if Player A liberates Emrok, they have to ally all over again.

I've done something similar - played Insurrection on an undefended planet, then immediately liberated it... and lo and behold, I happened to have a card for that planet's disposition in hand also, so they become my ally
 
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