Michael Burke
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Ok totally confused about the conversion kit and what it's used for. I bought Decent ages ago and have yet to play it (I probably subconsciously don't want to hump the box around). With the 2nd edition coming out soon is it worth buying the conversion kit or just the 2nd edition. Will the conversion kit provide everything I need to play my 1st edition game using the 2nd edition rules or does the conversion kit just allow you to use the characters and monsters in the 1st edition with the 2nd edition game (I suspect the latter).

 
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Yeah, you're right. The conversion kit is only meant to transfer figures (heroes and monsters) from 1E to 2E. No complete rules or anything of the sort.

So if you're interested in the game, I suggest you buy 2E and if you have the money to spare, considering you already have 1E you might as well get the conversion kit to be able to use your figures. More variety is always good.

Hope this answers your question.
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Shadow17 wrote:
Yeah, you're right. The conversion kit is only meant to transfer figures (heroes and monsters) from 1E to 2E. No complete rules or anything of the sort.

So if you're interested in the game, I suggest you buy 2E and if you have the money to spare, considering you already have 1E you might as well get the conversion kit to be able to use your figures. More variety is always good.

Hope this answers your question.


Although I wonder if the fan base could convert the scenarios to work with second edition rules. I don't think the map pieces are that different.
 
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Cheers for clearing that up. I suspect there will be some very upset descent players who bought the base game and all the expansions. why couldnt ffg release another expansion that also updated the rules. it really seems they are screwing the 1st edition players a lot.
 
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It's not that they're screwing players- it's more that 2E changes so much that I doubt the scenarios and other mechanics are that easily transferred from 1E to 2E.

Maybe with a lot of extra house rules it's possible, but also the balance itself and the fact you have quest objectives makes it difficult to implement.

In addition, you have to remember that 1E players had a lot of expansions. More than enough to just play 1E. 1E got more content than most other games. I think a conversion kit for the figures is already quite nice, because it's the brunt of the game I'd say. It must've taken them quite a bit of effort to balance these with the new monsters and the new system.

Of course, it's just my opinion. I don't know all the details. I just think it's premature to say FFG is screwing players of 1E when they're making an effort to transfer and (most likely) properly balance the figs.

Bottom line, 1E quests would probably be too hard to switch to the new system. Maybe it could be done, but FFG can't spend all their time doing that just for 1E users.

I agree, there needs to be a balance. 1E users should be able to use stuff from their set. But I don't think it's fair to ask for the huge load of rules and content all to be transferred and playtested, just because a new edition is out.

If the editions were mostly similiar it would be understandable, but it's not Descent 1.5 (the update), it's Descent 2.0 (the semi-sequel).

I think the conversion kit is a fair compromise.

Just some thoughts.
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Drittz wrote:
Cheers for clearing that up. I suspect there will be some very upset descent players who bought the base game and all the expansions. why couldnt ffg release another expansion that also updated the rules. it really seems they are screwing the 1st edition players a lot.


They could have just not released the Conversion Kit at all. I'm just grateful all my 1E stuff isn't going to waste.
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At $25 full retail price for the conversion kit, I don't see how 1st edition players can be upset. I for one am quite happy that for a little extra ($18 preorder) I can use all of my figures from 1st edition with a new set of rules. The monsters seem a lot more interesting to me in 2nd edition, so it's breathing new life into old plastic.

Yes, I have to buy the new game. That's how new games work. The fact that I can use 75-100 old figures in the new game with the conversion kit is pure bonus. The simple fact is that you can't support a series forever. At some point things need to go out of print because it's not commercially viable anymore. The conversion kit is a way of NOT slapping everyone in face who bought 1st edition, not the other way around.

As for an expansion with a rules update, that can't really work with how they're doing the new quests. They're set up to be more theme-heavy than 1st edition, so you can't really do, say, "The Fat Goblin" without the new Goblin Archers. Just wouldn't work.
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Shadow17 wrote:

If the editions were mostly similiar it would be understandable, but it's not Descent 1.5 (the update), it's Descent 2.0 (the semi-sequel).


Very interesting thought. What if they would have called it Descent 2 instead of 2nd Edition?

Being perceived as a brand new game, a sequel to the classic, might have eased the 1st ed fans bitterness? And hey, they will even release a kit to be able to use all heroes and monsters from Descent 1!!

The main point is that some people feel as if they have to throw all the 1st ed stuff to the garbage. There is even a thread here asking people if they are going to give away their old game. Havent read anyone saying they will yet.

 
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Acererak wrote:
Shadow17 wrote:

If the editions were mostly similiar it would be understandable, but it's not Descent 1.5 (the update), it's Descent 2.0 (the semi-sequel).


Very interesting thought. What if they would have called it Descent 2 instead of 2nd Edition?

Being perceived as a brand new game, a sequel to the classic, might have eased the 1st ed fans bitterness? And hey, they will even release a kit to be able to use all heroes and monsters from Descent 1!!

The main point is that some people feel as if they have to throw all the 1st ed stuff to the garbage. There is even a thread here asking people if they are going to give away their old game. Havent read anyone saying they will yet.



Agreed. And I think, because of the differences between editions and the fact you can use stuff from 1E, it's really nice to own both.

I mean- it's not like people are getting upset that you can't use your Diablo 2 character in 3. In video games sequels are very common and people don't really mourn the old much. And the really good games get mods, because fans love them so much. In board games you have that in the sense of house rules.

I mean, you can't fully compare VGs to BGs, but if there's a new edition you can go two ways- an update (in which case it makes sense to make old stuff compatible) and a full-on rework. FFG chose to go a different direction with 2E whilst staying true to as much of what made 1E great. But because it's so different, people wanting more of 1E, ie an update, they will be dissapointed. What they really want is just more of the same. I personally think that expansions suit this more than sequels. And 1E has had plenty. Of course, more expansions would've been swell, but that doesn't mean it had too little content. I prefer that 2E now has the chance to start fresh and expand on itself.

Personally, I really like the new direction, but irregardless of whether it's good or not, I will judge the new version on its own merits. I can compare it to 1E, but if something is different (and not just worse), it's more a question of taste- whether you like the difference.

That's why discussion about what works and what doesn't is good. It makes clear what has improved and what hasn't, but it also shows that there are also just differences- some which people seem to either love/hate.

All in all, if Diablo 3 really is vastly different, worse or better, you can always play Diablo 2.

Same goes for Descent.

What 2E becomes matters and that's why I like these discussions on what we think it is so far, because for me personally it helps showcase that I like those differences and improvements. The faults are not major for me, so I'm excited.


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Drittz wrote:
Ok totally confused about the conversion kit and what it's used for. I bought Decent ages ago and have yet to play it (I probably subconsciously don't want to hump the box around). With the 2nd edition coming out soon is it worth buying the conversion kit or just the 2nd edition. Will the conversion kit provide everything I need to play my 1st edition game using the 2nd edition rules or does the conversion kit just allow you to use the characters and monsters in the 1st edition with the 2nd edition game (I suspect the latter).



It's not a conversion kit.

It's an expansion.

You could use little green army men for the monsters if you wanted. If you happen to have 1st edition, the miniatures will match better.
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Shadow17 wrote:
...but irregardless of whether it's good or not...


Ouch.

I realise English probably isn't your first language, but this is one of those words that people should be shot for using. Word of advice: never, ever use it again.
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Shadow17 wrote:
...but irregardless of whether it's good or not...


Ouch.

I realise English probably isn't your first language, but this is one of those words that people should be shot for using. Word of advice: never, ever use it again.


Sorry, should've been regardless, shouldn't it? It's just one of those non-words that sneak into your use of words.

Ugh, I get annoyed when I mess up at english.
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Shadow17 wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Shadow17 wrote:
...but irregardless of whether it's good or not...


Ouch.

I realise English probably isn't your first language, but this is one of those words that people should be shot for using. Word of advice: never, ever use it again.


Sorry, should've been regardless, shouldn't it? Double negatives .

Ugh, I get annoyed when I mess up at english.


Just edit it and deny it ever happened.
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Butlerian wrote:
Shadow17 wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Shadow17 wrote:
...but irregardless of whether it's good or not...


Ouch.

I realise English probably isn't your first language, but this is one of those words that people should be shot for using. Word of advice: never, ever use it again.


Sorry, should've been regardless, shouldn't it? Double negatives .

Ugh, I get annoyed when I mess up at english.


Just edit it and deny it ever happened.


What happened? I don't recall talking about english in a Descent thread.

Or are we talking about Descent: Journeys Into The Dark Realm Of Dialects 2nd'edit'ion?
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I think Mariano had a good idea in that maybe they should of called it Descent 2. It's not the point of stopping them from making the game better and profiting from it but when the original cost £70 and expansions around £35 it's a heck of a lot to start over again for some tweaked rules. I hope the 2 games are very different and play differently to feel like 2 separate games. I hope they release different expansions to the original to ease the pain. As I'm a sucker for dungeon crawlers I will probably pick this up and skip the conversion kit.
 
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I'll be the naysayer here, but I don't think "Descent 2" would have had much different meaning to people than "Descent: Second Edition".

I'm not sure the Diablo example is really a good one - in Diablo, the 2nd one is a true sequel, a continuation of the story. Final Fantasy or Master of Orion may have been a better take, where the numbers aren't necessarily tied to anything but order of release.
 
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I'll be the naysayer here, but I don't think "Descent 2" would have had much different meaning to people than "Descent: Second Edition".

I'm not sure the Diablo example is really a good one - in Diablo, the 2nd one is a true sequel, a continuation of the story. Final Fantasy or Master of Orion may have been a better take, where the numbers aren't necessarily tied to anything but order of release.


I agree with you. It was just the first example I came up with. FF is a better example, yeah.

And I also agree that the naming wouldn't have mattered much, because the core of it is more about what people want from the game.
 
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I'll be the naysayer here, but I don't think "Descent 2" would have had much different meaning to people than "Descent: Second Edition".

I'm not sure the Diablo example is really a good one - in Diablo, the 2nd one is a true sequel, a continuation of the story. Final Fantasy or Master of Orion may have been a better take, where the numbers aren't necessarily tied to anything but order of release.


Well, we will never know. Everything is pure speculation, but when I see people asking for conversion of 1st Edition quests, when we are having a whole new set of brand new ones (and way more interesting than the old ones from what we know so far) I cannot help but think that there is some psycological attachment to their 1st Ed stuff from the fans that could have been avoided by that subtle change.

They were expecting something else from a 2nd Edition as has been said over and over this forums. Maybe they would not have the same expectations of an independent second game in the series. The idea of starting all over again might have been more palatable.
 
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The 2nd edition's miniatures are going to be of a better quality/detail than the 1st edition no?

Isn't that bothersome?

I'm just asking, I haven't looked through Descent 2nd ed all that much!
 
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That remains to be seen. I would imagine the molding process has improved somewhat since 2005, though.
 
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Shoogoo wrote:
The 2nd edition's miniatures are going to be of a better quality/detail than the 1st edition no?

Isn't that bothersome?

I'm just asking, I haven't looked through Descent 2nd ed all that much!


Oh no! The quality has improved! Run for the hills! wow

Sorry - couldn't resist pointing out how people will find a negative in any kind of change.
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Shoogoo wrote:
The 2nd edition's miniatures are going to be of a better quality/detail than the 1st edition no?

Isn't that bothersome?

I'm just asking, I haven't looked through Descent 2nd ed all that much!


Oh no! The quality has improved! Run for the hills! wow

Sorry - couldn't resist pointing out how people will find a negative in any kind of change.


Oh no, it is "Second Edition" printed on the box. That game is crap, its name not "Descent: Journey in the dark".

By the way, do you like all the changes in 2E?
 
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so won't the 'conversion kit' simply be a box of new hero cards and monster cards, and these images will be available on BGG 2 weeks after release, and if they weren't, then fan-made ones would be?

Just seems like FFG squeezing one last buck out of the old product to me.

 
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Minedog3 wrote:
so won't the 'conversion kit' simply be a box of new hero cards and monster cards, and these images will be available on BGG 2 weeks after release, and if they weren't, then fan-made ones would be?

Some of them, maybe, but I can almost guarantee if someone tried to post every single hero/monster card, FFG would be on them. It's no different than their policy about other games and the posting of the entire text of all cards.

Quote:
Just seems like FFG squeezing one last buck out of the old product to me.

Would you rather have had them just not do it at all, leaving all the 1E figures to be fan-converted only?
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