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Subject: Commerce rule dabate in our last game... rss

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Darren Brost
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Hello all,

In my last game of 7 Wonders I played with a group including a couple who also owns the game. During rule explanation they sparked a debate stating I was playing/teaching a commerce rule incorrectly. I think that their rule was crazy...so please help me prove it.

The way I teach commerce is that if you need to buy a resource from a neighbour you can only purchase the number of resources that the neighbour has. So if a neighbour is producing 1 wood, you can only by 1 wood from them that round (by round I mean for each structure/card you build)

They argue that if a neighbour is producing a good that you can purchase infinite amounts of that resource in a round. So if a neighbour is producing 1 wood, you can by x amounts of wood from them that round.

To me their rule changes a fundamental game rule between my city and my neighbours city and it also changes the point/purpose of the game.

Thoughts? Help? Did I make any sense at all?

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Chef D
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You are correct. They are wrong.
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Andy Leber
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You only get one wood from a single wood too, so why would you're neighbors potentially benefit from it even more than you (even though they have to pay, but still...).

You're right, their rule is crazy, lol.
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Steven Albano
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I can't find it directly quoted in the rule book. But it is implied in Example B, "During a game turn, both neighboring cities buy from her 2 Stones for a total of 8 coins (2 per resource). In the same turn, she can build a Library (cost: 2 Stones +1 Textile) thanks to her resources, even though she has sold them to her neighboring cities."

It is implied that each neighbor is purchasing a different Stone.

But also, logically, within the game it doesn't make sense. If I'm able to buy 3 stones when a neighbor only has 1, why doesn't my Wood become 3?
 
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Ken Dilloo
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Their way would break the game. Why on Earth would it be limited for the owner of the card/building, but unlimited for their purchasing neighbor? That makes no sense, not even common sense.
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Damien Seb. ●leoskyangel●
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I play games not to win, it's the gathering that's important - Thanks for the tip Cate108!
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You're certainly right. Maybe show them this thread or e-mail them the link will help them understand.

- Damien
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Jerry Martin
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Because "Hey look I got a few people on the internet to agree with me" is always a solid argument.


For what it is worth. You are right, one per card.
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Darren Brost
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Thanks for the quick responses everyone. I was almost certain I was correct but I've taught many many people 7 Wonders and I would have felt pretty bad if I had taught that rule wrong.

I've passed the post on to the other party. Thanks again!
 
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Darren Brost
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LoL Jerry...good point. I like to think of it as "Hey look I got a few fellow gamers on boardgamegeek to agree with me".

Makes me feel a little better...
 
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M. B. Downey
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Don't think of it as a resource, think of it as a prerequisite.
 
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bigloo33 wrote:
Their way would break the game. Why on Earth would it be limited for the owner of the card/building, but unlimited for their purchasing neighbor? That makes no sense, not even common sense.
Well, in theory, they'd need to pay for all those hits of stone, whereas you'd be generating infite amounts of them for free. Certainly makes the Aqueduct a lot less intimidating (and "cheaper" too since it'd only require one type of resource )

I can't say I wouldn't be even a bit tempted to take $6 from my single stone symbol so that someone can build an Aqueduct
 
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Ken Dilloo
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ackmondual wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
Their way would break the game. Why on Earth would it be limited for the owner of the card/building, but unlimited for their purchasing neighbor? That makes no sense, not even common sense.
Well, in theory, they'd need to pay for all those hits of stone, whereas you'd be generating infite amounts of them for free. Certainly makes the Aqueduct a lot less intimidating (and "cheaper" too since it'd only require one type of resource )

I can't say I wouldn't be even a bit tempted to take $6 from my single stone symbol so that someone can build an Aqueduct


And if the Queen had balls, she'd be the King
 
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Stefan Brunell
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The way I teach commerce is that if you need to buy a resource from a neighbour you can only purchase the number of resources that the neighbour has. So if a neighbour is producing 1 wood, you can only by 1 wood from them that round (by round I mean for each structure/card you build)

You are right.

Otherwise, why can I use my own stuff only once?
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FWIW, I use "round" to describe an entire age (so in round 1, you pass cards to your left when done). I use "turn" to describe what the OP refers to as "round".
 
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David Jones
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bigloo33 wrote:
Their way would break the game. Why on Earth would it be limited for the owner of the card/building, but unlimited for their purchasing neighbor? That makes no sense, not even common sense.


Why on earth can both you and your neighbor use the resource once, but you can't use the resource twice yourself? "Sense" nor "common sense" are not valid arguments here.
 
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M. B. Downey
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Again, think of the "resource" simply as a "prerequisite".

If it helps you with the "common sense" portion, you could think of it as different types of stone, different types of lumber, etc. You need multiple types to build those, it just doesn't matter how much you actually produce. That way you can sell it to both your neighbors.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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davypi wrote:
bigloo33 wrote:
Their way would break the game. Why on Earth would it be limited for the owner of the card/building, but unlimited for their purchasing neighbor? That makes no sense, not even common sense.


Why on earth can both you and your neighbor use the resource once, but you can't use the resource twice yourself? "Sense" nor "common sense" are not valid arguments here.


Well, then I guess that is what the rule book is for.
 
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Adrian Brooks
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DaPhant wrote:
I like to think of it as "Hey look I got a few fellow gamers on boardgamegeek to agree with me".

Makes me feel a little better...


This thread (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/727636/buying-more-resou...) has the same question and same conclusion before you asked it, so folks are not just being nice to you in particular.
 
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Andy Leber
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And the fact that not a single person has disagreed is also pretty telling. (you figure there'd always be at least one, if there were any question at all)
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Oz Me
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Another "tell" is the fact that a few resource cards provide "two" prerequisites... No need for that if they gave unlimited resources. (In fact, I think there's a rule that says your neighbors can only buy "one" of the two such resources, but I may be misremembering that, my rules aren't readily handy from my current locale.)

Think of the resource card as providing enough stone, for example, for local building and trading, lest you would be at war with your neighboring cities.

And to forestall queries, think of military might as exerting influence. Not actual wars.
 
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Andy Leber
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Ozme52 wrote:
Another "tell" is the fact that a few resource cards provide "two" prerequisites... No need for that if they gave unlimited resources.


I thought about that too, but I guess the argument from the other side could be that those only apply to your own use, and not your neighbors. Again, why the use would be different for you and your neighbor is beyond me.



Ozme52 wrote:
In fact, I think there's a rule that says your neighbors can only buy "one" of the two such resources, but I may be misremembering that, my rules aren't readily handy from my current locale.)


Interesting if this happens to be the case. I've been playing wrong if so. Can anyone confirm?


Anyways, I think that we all agree that you only get to use each symbol once for your own resource collection (the double symbol cards prove that)... so if the rulebook doesn't specify that your neighbors treat them differently, then you have to treat them the same. In this regard, the rulebook doesn't particularly need to spell it out, in my opinion. Otherwise, you're just inventing rules.
 
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Ken Dilloo
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No, if you have a two stone card, for example, they would be able to buy two.
 
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M. B. Downey
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Holmes108 wrote:
Ozme52 wrote:
In fact, I think there's a rule that says your neighbors can only buy "one" of the two such resources, but I may be misremembering that, my rules aren't readily handy from my current locale.)


Interesting if this happens to be the case. I've been playing wrong if so. Can anyone confirm?


This is wrong. Each player to your left and right can buy as many resources as you have.
 
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Bryan Lane
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It's been a while since I've played, but I seem to recall there was split cards (i.e. wood/ore) as well as double resource cards (i.e. wood wood). In the event you have a split card, you can use/purchase one but not both (it counts as either a wood or an ore for the round) whereas with a double resource card both resources are available.

It's been a while, I'm not positive. I thought the split resources were age I and the double resources were age II.
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M. B. Downey
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Right. The split resources are age 1 and the double reasources are age 2. Your opponents can only use one of the split resource cards, which is independent from what you use that play, and vice versa.

But using an age 2 double resource of two stone, as was mentioned above, is allowed, as long as you have enough money to pay for it.
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