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Summoner Wars: Master Set» Forums » General

Subject: Are sleeves "required"? rss

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Daniel Corban
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Anyone browsing this forum will immediately notice an obsession with sleeves for this game. I am a "sleever" myself, but really only if the game warrants it due to the cards either being of dubious quality, requiring many shuffles, or if having slight marks would negatively affect gameplay.

I am considering this game, but I would prefer to not sleeve it, mainly due to the struggle everyone seems to have with finding properly fitting sleeves. I have read the related sleeve threads and I have yet to see an image of sleeves which fit properly. They all seem to have the card coming right up to the exposed edge, which is unacceptable.

From what I understand, you only shuffle your decks once. I see the publisher went with black/colored borders, which will quickly show any nicks in the edge. How is the quality of the cards? These are Chinese-made cards, which is usually a very bad sign for card quality and durability.

Does this game "require" sleeves?
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The Compulsive Completist
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If you use the reinforcement decks there can be some uneven wear. I haven't experience it at all yet but I am not playing dozens of games a week either.

It is not needed for excessive shuffling like Dominion. There is virtually no shuffling.

If there were properly fitting sleeves I would probably sleeve them mainly for ease of picking the cards up off of the board.
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Caleb
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Hockey Mask wrote:
If you use the reinforcement decks there can be some uneven wear. I haven't experience it at all yet but I am not playing dozens of games a week either.

It is not needed for excessive shuffling like Dominion. There is virtually no shuffling.

If there were properly fitting sleeves I would probably sleeve them mainly for ease of picking the cards up off of the board.


This. You only shuffle once per game, at the beginning. I typically just deal the cards into several piles, 2 or 3 times, because it's kinda hard to shuffle only 27-29 cards, which is about what you have in your deck after placing your starting cards.

I own the entire set, and have not bothered to sleeve the cards. I do not believe they need it, at all.

But, I almost never sleeve anything, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

Edit. I will say, the card quality is certainly not 'euro-standard'. So if you plan to play a LOT, then over time I'm sure the cards will show wear. I play quite a bit on Vassal, and not as much face-to-face. but with reasonable care, I don't think you'll ever need to sleeve unless you play hundreds of games.
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Mark Bigney
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Hardly any shuffling, and the card quality is good enough not to need it. I do not take communion at the Church of Sleeves myself, but if you are only a sometimes sleever as you describe yourself I would think you'll be fine without.
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Daniel Corban
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Thanks for the quick replies. It is hard to judge based on what I read online. For example, the cards in Mage Knight Board Game look nice, but are thin and have very low durability. They definitely cry out for protection, yet there are still people who claim sleeves are not required.

I see that the current printer in use for this game produces slightly thicker cards than in previous editions, so I was hoping that sleeves were not required. I hit the "place order" button on my online cart as soon as I read the replies here.
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Caleb
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dcorban wrote:
Thanks for the quick replies. It is hard to judge based on what I read online. For example, the cards in Mage Knight Board Game look nice, but are thin and have very low durability. They definitely cry out for protection, yet there are still people who claim sleeves are not required.

I see that the current printer in use for this game produces slightly thicker cards than in previous editions, so I was hoping that sleeves were not required. I hit the "place order" button on my online cart as soon as I read the replies here.


The good news is, the game is popular enough that if you're unhappy with the quality after getting it, and don't want the further expense/hassle of sleeving, you will probably be able to get rid of it for close to what you paid for it. Be sure to post back here once you've had a chance to play a bit, and let us know if you decide to sleeve or not.
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Frank Conradie
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I have the entire collection and agree that it does not require sleeving. For reference, out of my 200 games the only ones I have so far sleeved are 7 Wonders (played a LOT as a filler) and Mage Knight: The Board Game (bad card quality).
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Khelz Underworld
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Just wanted to add that I had to sleeve Summoner Wars, but just because I'm a bit obsessive about protecting the games I love.

For your information, there is no issues at all if you pickup the right sleeves (the best are imo the Ultra Pro Deck Protector, japan format)).

I use these high quality sleeves and all the 16 factions fit perfectly in the Master Set box.
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Daniel Corban
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Khelz wrote:
Ultra Pro Deck Protector, japan format


Ultra Pro… with no hologram? Is this true?

Where can I buy packs of these, and do they come in clear?

But wait, aren't these too wide?
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Talorien
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dcorban wrote:
Khelz wrote:
Ultra Pro Deck Protector, japan format


Ultra Pro… with no hologram? Is this true?

Where can I buy packs of these, and do they come in clear?

But wait, aren't these too wide?


Dan, in case you go down the dark path of sleeving, this thread has a summary of sleeve sizes for SW:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/716558/best-size-sleeves-for...
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Caleb
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Talorien wrote:
dcorban wrote:
Khelz wrote:
Ultra Pro Deck Protector, japan format


Ultra Pro… with no hologram? Is this true?

Where can I buy packs of these, and do they come in clear?

But wait, aren't these too wide?


Dan, in case you go down the dark path of sleeving, this thread has a summary of sleeve sizes for SW:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/716558/best-size-sleeves-for...


A one-line summary of that thread:

Talorien wrote:
Unfortunately, it seems then that there's no perfect solution to sleeving SW
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Noble Knave
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I just got my copy and plan on taking it to my local game night, but given how I plan on letting anyone play it and seeing how bad some folks are at taking care of cards (I'm looking at you, folks who bend a corner EVERY TIME they place a card), I'll probably sleeve them with colored sleeves to give them a little extra flair and protection.

If the people you're playing with treat the cards nicely, sleeves are totally unnecessary.
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Khelz Underworld
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There is a small hologram behind (faction symbol side), but who cares? Its' so tiny and doesn't hide anything. I like it. They exist with coloured back and clear back, but I personnally prefer the clear ones (I like to see the faction symbols).

It's not too wide imho, and altough somebody said that there is not perfect solution, for me it is actually the perfect solution, the size is really matching the cards with a very small delta which is perfectly acceptable (you're able to play without any issues, and they fit perfectly in the Master Set box, what else do we need?).
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Jonathan Ramundi
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Probably going with Mayday Standard Euro when I take the plunge. I have a compulsion to sleeve everything, and these seem like the best:cheapest option (a local store sells the 100-sleeve packs for $1.79).
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Khelz Underworld
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Jotora wrote:
Probably going with Mayday Standard Euro when I take the plunge. I have a compulsion to sleeve everything, and these seem like the best:cheapest option (a local store sells the 100-sleeve packs for $1.79).


Sure but from what I've read, those cards doesn't reach the same level of quality (the sleeves tend to "stick" with each other). I didn't test it myself though, so take it as it should be taken
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Daniel Corban
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I strongly suggest against Mayday standard sleeves. Their quality is very inconsistent, and as mentioned, the cards will stick together. It is far more annoying than you would think. I've tried the sleeves and the sticking cards pissed me off.

Their premium sleeves still maintain the inconsistent size and quality, but at least they don't stick. However, you may as well just use FFG euro sleeves instead.
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Daniel Corban
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Khelz wrote:
There is a small hologram behind (faction symbol side), but who cares? Its' so tiny and doesn't hide anything. I like it. They exist with coloured back and clear back, but I personnally prefer the clear ones (I like to see the faction symbols).

Okay, so what is the exact name of these sleeves? Are they "yugioh" sized? Where can we get them?

Do you mean these:
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/main_supplies.php?fpid=Acc-UP50c...

They are the same sleeves supposedly recommended by the publisher, but my experience seems to mirror the photos I see online. The cards will either be flush or stick out of the top of the sleeve by 1mm. Unacceptable either way.
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Khelz Underworld
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dcorban wrote:
Khelz wrote:
There is a small hologram behind (faction symbol side), but who cares? Its' so tiny and doesn't hide anything. I like it. They exist with coloured back and clear back, but I personnally prefer the clear ones (I like to see the faction symbols).

Okay, so what is the exact name of these sleeves? Are they "yugioh" sized? Where can we get them?

Do you mean these:
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/main_supplies.php?fpid=Acc-UP50c...

They are the same sleeves supposedly recommended by the publisher, but my experience seems to mirror the photos I see online. The cards will either be flush or stick out of the top of the sleeve by 1mm. Unacceptable either way.


Yes I'm talking about those sleeves. I don't see why 1mm more would make the sleeves unacceptable. All my sleeves have always been slightly longer/larger than the cards themselves and to me this is perfectly acceptable The extra mm is actually a good thing to keep the bottom of the card protected.

FFG Euro sleeves are, however, really to long (like 5mm or something).
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Caleb
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It's not as much a problem if the SLEEVES are longer than the CARDS, but the other way around isn't good.
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Daniel Corban
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Yes, my experience is that the cards will stick out of the sleeve by about 1mm. I'm not sure how anyone could find that acceptable, considering one of the reasons for having sleeves is to protect the cards.

The Ultra Pro sleeves are labeled for use with cards of size 62x89mm. The Summoner Wars cards are 58x90mm.

Here is an example of the Master Set cards in those Ultra Pros:


As you can see, the edge of the card sticks out of the sleeve.
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Khelz Underworld
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I don't understand how this can be possible. All my sleeves are at least 1mm longer than the size of the cards.

I bought the packs containing 50 clear cards with a small hologram on each sleeve, not the coloured sleeves contained in 60 units packs. Not sure if there is a size difference between those two, but all my sleeves are consistently higher than my SW cards, and for all 16 factions.

I will take a few shots to prove my point. Did you get the coloured sleeves?

EDIT: Seems that SW cards are actually 58x88 mm, but I've also read that some older prints might be a bit longer. I bought the game quite recently so I guess my "prints" are recent enough to fit into the Ultra Pros.

This is exactly the ones I'm using:
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Daniel Corban
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As shown in the photo above, those are the Master Set cards, which are the latest printing.

1mm clearance is not enough, especially since the width is several mm too wide and should allow the cards to work their way out of the sleeves. I don't have direct experience with Summoner Wars cards, but I have had this happen with other cards that only had about 1mm clearance.

Trust me, I'd love if you had found sleeves that fit. If you did, then you are extremely lucky, as none of the dozens of users who have posted in the various sleeve threads have yet to have your success.
 
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Caleb
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dcorban wrote:
As shown in the photo above, those are the Master Set cards, which are the latest printing.


The sleeves in the photo are opaque-backed though - the sleeves Khelz is talking about are clear. Even at the 'same size' they're probably not truly identically-sized.
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Joseph Arthur Ellis
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dcorban wrote:
I'm not sure how anyone could find that acceptable, considering one of the reasons for having sleeves is to protect the cards.


Yes, you're right, they stick out as the pic indicates... I think you're being a little extreme there though. I'm totally happy with those sleeves. They protect the cards well enough and they're no harder to shuffle than unsleeved cards.
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Daniel Corban
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I am speaking from my own personal experience. I have used cards where they stuck out 1mm (or less) from the sleeve and the cards were obviously exposed to damage. Even in the photos you see in the examples, the edges are whitened from wear. Anyone satisfied with "only" having damage along one edge can buy those sleeves.

I do thank you for sharing your experience. The search continues…
 
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