Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Fields of Fire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Jam! veteran teams that become green rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
calpurnio pison

rafelbunyol
valencia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hi!

my veteran bazooka team has drawn a card with "JAM", so i flip their counter and that guys are a fire team now. but... are they green? (because the rules, the answer is "yes").

what is the meaning of this? malfunction of their weapon shake them?

will be needed to spend XP in become veteran again?

thanks in advance

EDIT: in fact... same thing with the weapon teams which exhaust their ammunition...

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Kossits
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would auto rally those guys back to normal between missions.
Scanned the rules quickly to find something that would let you do that legally and came up empty though.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Without taking a deep dive into the rules, I can't think of any way around it either. You are right, both 6.5 and 6.6 say:

Quote:
A one-Step weapons team unit (one armed with a machinegun,
rocket launcher, recoilless rifle, or similar weapon) that draws a
card containing the word “Jam” when trying a Grenade Attack has
experienced a serious weapons malfunction. Flip it to its Fire Team
side for the balance of the mission.


It does make sense to make them a fire team for the duration of the mission.

However, this is another case (unless we learn a solid reason why we shouldn't) where I think I would house rule them back to their original status when they get their weapon repaired between missions. I can't imagine how a jam would cause them to be so shaken they would lose all the veteran experience they have gained over time.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Kossits
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There's a similar issue with splitting Assault teams off of veteran squads?

The original squad step is vet, but they become line when you take the assault team. Squad quality MAY go down when you fuse them back in after the mission.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
peterk1 wrote:
There's a similar issue with splitting Assault teams off of veteran squads?

The original squad step is vet, but they become line when you take the assault team. Squad quality MAY go down when you fuse them back in after the mission.



Good point. To me you just have to use your head in some cases. If Ben had put a rule in place for every single possibility that can occur in this terrific game the rule book would have been overwhelming. I'm very comfortable with house rules where they make sense. Some players don't like to do anything outside of exactly what the rule book says which is great as well. The good news in a solitaire game is that we can all do things they way we are comfortable, and as important, the way that makes it enjoyable for us.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Kossits
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since they're preparing a software version of the game fairly soon I think that is possibly going to have a really huge impact on the rules and the little things like this are all going to get cleared up.

These are all questions that the software developers are going to be asking and it only makes sense to preserve the answers in the paper rules if it ends up being something simple like here.

I do the same as you Ron, if I remember which squads I broke the Assault teams off of, I just rejoin them back in at the end of the Mission.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
peterk1 wrote:
I would auto rally those guys back to normal between missions.
Scanned the rules quickly to find something that would let you do that legally and came up empty though.

11.1. Reattempting a Failed Mission and 11.3. Between Missions
"2) Reconstitute squads from LATs if enough remain, and automatic rally..."

peterk1 wrote:
There's a similar issue with splitting Assault teams off of veteran squads?

The original squad step is vet, but they become line when you take the assault team. Squad quality MAY go down when you fuse them back in after the mission.

Per 10.6, two Veteran steps + one Line step = Veteran squad. So no problem unless the assault team or the parent squad is later degraded.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
calpurnio pison

rafelbunyol
valencia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
11.1 and 11.3 says: "Reconstitute squads from LATs if enough remain, and automatic rally. Leave remaining LATs as Fire Teams."

i think the bazooka team is not a squad, so, they remain as fire team.

i'll do like Peter Kossits and rally them between missions, keeping their experience status for free.

i think the rulebook needs a "golden rule" in terms of "make sense of this rulebook". like some RPGs. without this rule, i feel like i'm cheating to myself. whistle victory don't shine as same glory...

thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
calpurnio1973 wrote:
11.1 and 11.3 says: "Reconstitute squads from LATs if enough remain, and automatic rally. Leave remaining LATs as Fire Teams."

i think the bazooka team is not a squad, so, they remain as fire team.

i'll do like Peter Kossits and rally them between missions, keeping their experience status for free.

I agree with you all, and think 11.1 and 11.3 allows you to flip weapons teams/HQs back to their good order side between missions. And since the counter was not removed, they regain their experience. IMO, the "automatic rally" clause applies to all units/LATs, not just squads.

Incidentally, I also extend the "automatic rally" idea to include HQ replacement between missions/attempts, using actions 4.2.1.d. and e. Those aren't strictly rally actions, but it just makes sense to me. Note that there's no action to reconstitute 1st Sgt or XO, so I only use replacement steps for that, between missions.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is a good question. I've been thinking about it again as I've been going through many rules questions and adding some of the interesting answers to the FOF Boot Camp Q&A page.
https://sites.google.com/site/fieldsoffirebootcamp/home/q-a

It seems to make sense for the unit to be green during the remainder of the mission as they are now performing combat differently than they did with their specialized weapon (with which they gained their experience). However, between missions it would seem odd to have to use XP to get them back to their previous status once their weapon has been repaired.


Any chance that Ben or Ricky could provide an official answer or least a thought or two about this one?

Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Yeackle
United States
San Luis Obispo
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CaanDo wrote:
However, between missions it would seem odd to have to use XP to get them back to their previous status once their weapon has been repaired.


Any chance that Ben or Ricky could provide an official answer or least a thought or two about this one?

Thanks!


The experience usage is so they learn not to waste all their ammo! Kidding...

This was actually covered back in 12/2008. It looks like some parts of this discussion made it into version 2 of the rules when covering what to do between missions, but it wasn't clarified in the re-write in regards to this situation here with flipped Weapons Teams due to an Out of Ammo condition. Took me awhile to dig it up (came across it before but couldn't remember where).

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.ee6eec3/1193

This weekend I finally finished my first real game, after dipping my toes in over the last 3.5 years (yikes!) and having life kick in and help me forget everything in between attempts. This time though I just buckled down and pushed on through. Awesome game, and thanks for your web site, it certainly helped on occasion!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron Lacock
United States
Wylie
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Jeff. I added this topic to the Q&A page on the FOF Bootcamp.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.