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Subject: Interested in this game. Tell me more! rss

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Michael
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So, I had seen this game on GMT's production list when I was getting updates on 1989: Dawn of Freedom. I had glanced over its description but didn't really give it much thought at the time. Now that the game is out in the wild, I've been giving it another look.

The historical aspect is something that interests me, as does the great production quality of the game. I've never played Here I Stand, so I have nothing to compare it to.

Is this game similar to other GMT games I own (Twilight Struggle, 1989: Dawn of Freedom, Labyrinth: The War on Terror, 2001 – ?)? Is it perhaps similar to non-GMT games in my collection? There haven't been any posted reviews yet, and I honestly can't make myself sit through that 2 hour "intro" video in the Videos section.

I look forward to your input.
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Joel Toppen
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Michael,

this is a considerably more complex game than Labyrinth, etc. The only similarity is that it uses cards. It is, however, an epic gaming experience.

It is multi-player. I personally would only play VQ with a full table of 6 people.

It is long. Plan on at least 6 hours to play a scenario. Maybe more for the first game. Strict time limits on Diplomacy can help move the game along though.

-Joel
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Philip Thomas
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It is a multiplayer game (AFAIK no 2-player version exists, but even if there was one it would still be true that the game was designed for multiplayer) which changes things: there is a big negotiation aspect for one thing. The games you list are all political games which (with the possible exception of Labyrinth) don't depict actual military units moving around and fighting each other- Virgin Queen does that, though still at a relatively abstracted level compared to many other wargames.

The game is a race to a certain VP total (25 I think) or other special win condition. Unlike Twlight Struggle, if player A gainst VPs, that does not automatically subtract VPs from player B.

That is probably enough from someone who hasn't played Virgin Queen.
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All you need to know about Virgin Queen and its players.
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William Bentley
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RoadHouse wrote:
All you need to know about Virgin Queen and its players.
RoadHouse-usually we keep the disturbed family members in the closet until after the nuptials...
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Brandon Kempf
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rievler wrote:
RoadHouse wrote:
All you need to know about Virgin Queen and its players.
RoadHouse-usually we keep the disturbed family members in the closet until after the nuptials...


Was really hoping that the cat would help end our misery by ripping his larynx out so he couldn't sing that annoying tune any longer.

If that is what Virgin Queen makes people act like, then I think I'll skip it no matter what anyone says.
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Paul Bradshaw
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Philip Thomas wrote:
It is a multiplayer game (AFAIK no 2-player version exists, but even if there was one it would still be true that the game was designed for multiplayer) which changes things: there is a big negotiation aspect for one thing.


Interesting point. The game is listed as being for 2-6 players, but do the wider game mechanics of negotiation etc mean that the 2 player experience will seriously be inhibited, that somehow you will miss out on the perceived strengths of the game?

I guess in short what I am asking is that would a two player experience still be a worthy one?
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Derek Long
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RoadHouse wrote:
All you need to know about Virgin Queen and its players.


I can't bear the noise in this video - all the contents of the box being carelessly dropped on the floor. It's more than I can stand.
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Greg Forster
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Hirsty9Owls wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
It is a multiplayer game (AFAIK no 2-player version exists, but even if there was one it would still be true that the game was designed for multiplayer) which changes things: there is a big negotiation aspect for one thing.


Interesting point. The game is listed as being for 2-6 players, but do the wider game mechanics of negotiation etc mean that the 2 player experience will seriously be inhibited, that somehow you will miss out on the perceived strengths of the game?

I guess in short what I am asking is that would a two player experience still be a worthy one?


Ther game provides two ways to play two-player. One is a Spain v. Ottoman tutorial game that's meant to help you learn the core rules before you take on the full rule set. I've played it and it's a lot of fun for what it is, but it's a far cry from the full experience; it's basically the VQ military game full on, none of that distracting negotiating, religion, new world, etc.

The other way to play two-player is to play the regular game but with one player controlling Spain and France, the other player controlling England and the Protestant, and the remaining two powers (HRE and Ottoman) available for activation by either player. Three, four and five player configurations along these lines are also provided. I haven't played this way and can't speak to whether it works.

I will say that it's pretty generally agreed the 3-5 player setups provided in HIS were unsatisfactory, so the setups in VQ were designed and playtested with a lot more care in order to provide a better experience this time.
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Michael
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Hirsty9Owls wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
It is a multiplayer game (AFAIK no 2-player version exists, but even if there was one it would still be true that the game was designed for multiplayer) which changes things: there is a big negotiation aspect for one thing.


Interesting point. The game is listed as being for 2-6 players, but do the wider game mechanics of negotiation etc mean that the 2 player experience will seriously be inhibited, that somehow you will miss out on the perceived strengths of the game?

I guess in short what I am asking is that would a two player experience still be a worthy one?


I'm interested in knowing this as well. When the comment was made that the game can last 6 or more hours and is best with 6 players, I couldn't imagine ever getting this game to the table if that's the best way to play it. If it plays just as well with 2-4 players, I could certainly work it in.
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2-5 player game experience is still an interesting question. If the game would enjoyable enough with less than six players than you I could see VQ hit the table more often.
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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RoadHouse wrote:
2-5 player game experience is still an interesting question. If the game would enjoyable enough with less than six players than you I could see VQ hit the table more often.

Same here. I'm waiting for a review (or at least session report with opinions) based on a full-scenario two-player game.
 
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Joel K
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Tennberg wrote:
When the comment was made that the game can last 6 or more hours and is best with 6 players, I couldn't imagine ever getting this game to the table if that's the best way to play it.

The full 6 players is unquestionably the best. I'm in a 5 player game right now and it's great. The 2 or 3 player games would be my options of last resort, because each of those requires someone to operate two powers simultaneously. This necessarily limits the richness of the diplomacy.

So my personal opinion is shoot for 6, settle happily for 4 or 5, and consider a different game with 2 or 3 (unless you are really set on playing this).
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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JoelCFC25 wrote:
The 2 or 3 player games would be my options of last resort, because each of those requires someone to operate two powers simultaneously. This necessarily limits the richness of the diplomacy.

So my personal opinion is shoot for 6, settle happily for 4 or 5, and consider a different game with 2 or 3 (unless you are really set on playing this).

Thanks, Joel. But some of us are strange that way. For example, I vastly prefer The Napoleonic Wars (Second Edition) two-player over multi-player. We don't mind playing multiple powers - in fact, we enjoy it. The "richness of the diplomacy" is not as important for some gamers as for others - just a matter of taste. So I'd still like to hear from someone who prefers less diplomacy how it plays as a two-player game.
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