Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Hanabi & Ikebana» Forums » General

Subject: The spirit of the game --- Bull rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Adam Kunsemiller
United States
Indianapolis
IN
flag msg tools
badge
Mischievous Hobbes is Mischievous
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I love this game. I love it to pieces. I've noted a lot of back and forth in forums regarding conventions for how to play the game effectively and debate on the merit of these conventions and whether they were within the "spirit of the game" and there was always a little niggling annoyance when I read it...

The designer of the game (by all rights the authority on how this game is meant to be played) has stated essentially "play it however you find it the most enjoyable"

To that end, the "Spirit of the Game" is to "Have fun" I know this sounds like a giant cop out, but think this game in particular lends itself to the fun mental exercise of "how can we put a structure on top of these restraints that is powerful and useful" and that itself becomes a meta game. If that is fun for you and your group, who is anyone to tell you that you are doing it wrong?

And yet I've seen some pretty brazen comments, for example:
Quote:
think of what would happen if this was a computer game.
when you get a hint, you receive the information in neutral manner.
this is how the game is meant to be played


I can't help but strongly disagree with this.

And even this computer game example could still easily lend itself to conventions that I think a lot of people on this board would consider "cheating" : Silly example, whoever I give a clue to, the person after him is meant to play the number card of which I gave him a clue. For example, if I tell person 1 "This and this are 3s" then that is an indicator to person 2 that they should play their third card from the right......

Quote:
Thirdly, and most objectionable, is that playing with conventions requires both partners to sit alone together in the bedroom outside the game, concocting little schemes, tittering and giggling with anticipation for when these little schemes can be unleashed on unwary opponents. This is unseemly. This is juvenile.


The difference between Hanabi and Tichu or Bridge is that Hanabi is wholly cooperative. SevenSpirit's villainous conventions do not harm anyone else who plays this game. No one will ever play this game against anyone else. If my friends and I have spent hours upon hours scheming away at a convention, tittering and giggling and relishing every moment of it, then that is awesome, Bravo Hanabi!

Instead of saying "that is against the spirit of the game" it would be more apt to say "I would find any score obtained with that method to be less impressive" but you could also turn around in the same breath and say "and although I'm not impressed with your perfect 30 score, given the convention you used, I'm terribly impressed by that convention, way to go chap, clever stuff!"

For what it's worth, after having gone on that rant, when I play, I prefer to play with the only information that is imparted being a simultaneous point to all of a rank or all of a suit, and for people to track their card age. I play that way because I have a blast, but if you play differently, if you are having fun, you are doing it right.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Making yourself devoid of emotion is impossible. The amount of information you give by pointing out that "those 2 are both 3s" can be massive. It all depends on your facial expression, your hesitation, etc etc.

What we try to do (to get it most fun for us) is "not push it". Like, saying "THIS is yellow, and then THIS is also yellow and then THIS is also yellow", which would imply that the first is a 1, the second a 2 and the third a 3.

However, it's impossible to not hesitate when the situation is difficult, and of course this is also information. We just try to keep that surplus information to a minimum. Then we discuss the game afterwards.

While hearing what you say, I have a hard time thinking it's can be as fun as we have, if you blatantly bend the rules to include gestures etc. But to each his own. Loving this game to pieces is something we have in common.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Simon, have you ever had a 25-point game when playing that way?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To be honest, I've mostly played the MadoMagion version which differs in small details, but yes, there has been a full-pointer with that method, even at hard mode (using a 6th colour).

Shortly spoken, in MadoMagion, players do not have own tokens that are discarded when giving information (as I've understood is the case with Hanabi) but general tokens of which there are only 2. These can be returned by drawing event cards of which there are 9, only they have slightly different effects. There is also an unbalanced colour distribution (there are much fewer pink cards than purple, for example), and, if you play hard mode, a sixth colour. I cannot say if all this makes the game harder or not.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay so you haven't played Hanabi much... I do wonder if getting 25 points is simply a function of luck if you play it without any hint conventions...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clydeiii wrote:
Okay so you haven't played Hanabi much... I do wonder if getting 25 points is simply a function of luck if you play it without any hint conventions...

It certainly isn't just a function of luck. Bad card distribution can, though, in my experience make it impossible. MadoMagion might be different, but it still runs on the same basic mechanisms, so it ain't _that_ different.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zimeon wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Okay so you haven't played Hanabi much... I do wonder if getting 25 points is simply a function of luck if you play it without any hint conventions...

It certainly isn't just a function of luck. Bad card distribution can, though, in my experience make it impossible. MadoMagion might be different, but it still runs on the same basic mechanisms, so it ain't _that_ different.
I'm confused...in my world, bad card distribution == luck.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clydeiii wrote:
I'm confused...in my world, bad card distribution == luck.


You said "simply a function of luck" (emphasis mine).
That bad luck can make it impossible doesn't mean that success is simply a function of luck. You don't even need good luck. You just want to avoid very bad luck. The rest is skill in communication. Having super-ultra luck won't win you the game in any situation.

Also, I don't know if bad luck can make Hanabi impossible. In MadoMagion, if the pink 4 and blue 4 (just 1 of each) are in the bottom of the deck, you're pretty much toast, although it can be levied with completing the purple colour.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The way my group plays Hanabi, we are hosed if the 5s come out in our starting hands.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.