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Subject: 5 player classic variant rss

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David Folksman
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Right,

im thinking of starting a five player variant tonight, its a combination of a variant listed here and the in the book variant.

two things will happen

1) Italy will be neutral and unplayed.

2) Germany will also control Austria and become one superpower.

How do you think the balance of the game will be affected? Do you think someone could control Italy as well? I think a germany italy alliace then would become to strong.

Any input is welcome.

Thanks.
 
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Edward Rustin
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The German superpower would likely be far too powerful - starting with six units from the start and having one of it's neighbors being a dummy power.
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David Folksman
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Thanks for your reply,

I see what you are saying, but I think if we eliminate another power instead (such as Russia) the game balance will swing even more widely

I'm hoping the German superstate would encourage others to band together against the germans in order to defeat them?

 
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Edward Rustin
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Doesn't make too fun of a game for the Germans then!

Problem is that Diplomacy isn't balanced for 5p at all, it's arguably not well balanced for 7 to begin with...

Perhaps, and this is a slightly strange idea, remove Austria and Italy completely and allow each power to place an extra unit on one of the six HC's that belong to Italy and Austria. It would probably be unbalanced still, but it could be interesting to see what effect it would have.
 
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David Folksman
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Yes, I agree you would have to have a good diplomat on the German team!

I like your idea, i'll try and work out some balanced positions to have units on these supply centres.

Thanks for your input! I'll let you know how we get on.
 
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David Folksman
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also, we have a very limited amount of time to play (3 & 1/2 hours)

So I dont forsee an amazing game, but I am going to call it after 3 1/2 hours to see who has the most supply centers.

I have always wondered also, why does Russia start with 1 more supply center?
 
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M. B. Downey
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Because it has to deal with Britain and Germany in the West and Austria and Turkey in the South. It still makes him very strong, however.
 
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M. B. Downey
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If you are looking for 5 player variants, try here.

Good lists of variants in general are here and here, to include the excellent Diplomacy: 1900 Variant, which solves most of the normal balance issues for standard Diplomacy.
 
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David Folksman
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thanks!

Ive seen those variant pages before but im not a fan of getting new maps. They are not mounted and dont look nice.

Ive had a look here http://www.variantbank.org/players/fiveplayer.asp for example, but there are no links explaining how these variants work? Am I missing something?

On the topic of my previous proposal, what would you think about making UK impassable, playing Italy and making germany the superpower?
 
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Randall Bart
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DaveyF wrote:
Ive seen those variant pages before but im not a fan of getting new maps. They are not mounted and dont look nice.


If you want to play with five players, get a five player map. It's better to get seven players.

If you really insist on playing five players on the regular map, I suggest you leave German and Italy in civil disorder. It plays just like you have seven players, except the Italians and Germans don't have any orders so they sit. This variant had a name that was a year, eg, 1848.
 
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David Folksman
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Thanks for the advice everyone.

Barticus88 wrote:
DaveyF wrote:
Ive seen those variant pages before but im not a fan of getting new maps. They are not mounted and dont look nice.


If you want to play with five players, get a five player map. It's better to get seven players.

If you really insist on playing five players on the regular map, I suggest you leave German and Italy in civil disorder. It plays just like you have seven players, except the Italians and Germans don't have any orders so they sit. This variant had a name that was a year, eg, 1848.


I have played this variant in the past but it took all our time just getting west to meet east, and an east vs west alliance formed quite quickly.

I admit we sholdnt be playing dip with our time and playing constraints, but some dip is better than none right?

For the record one of our players cancelled and we ended up playing a 4 player game of something else any way
 
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Randall Bart
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DaveyF wrote:
I have played this variant in the past but it took all our time just getting west to meet east, and an east vs west alliance formed quite quickly.


With only five players there are not many ways the alliances can shake out. This is not a map specific problem. You need more players.

DaveyF wrote:
I admit we sholdnt be playing dip with our time and playing constraints, but some dip is better than none right?


Welllllllll.... If you go to the driving range and whack some balls, and then go to the putting green and tap some putts in, you are practicing golf, but you are not playing golf. You can play two player Diplomacy to practice the tactics. You can play with five players for practice. You can play only six years for practice. But until one player has 18 supply centers and six players have lost, you have not played Diplomacy.
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Calavera Despierta
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YMMV, but I use the five player South America map when I am stuck with five. It's incredibly well balanced (or well, at least as well balanced as anything can be - it's still as asymmetrical as the basic map...)

Here's a link to a MS powerpoint file of the South America 5-player map I put up a while ago. Not very high res, but I run games in my classroom using it by projecting it up on the smartboard.
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