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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Exodus Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Cylon Fleet rules question rss

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Charles Sutherland
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After two games where the humans got crushed, we are trying to figure out what we are playing wrong.

When the Humans execute a jump why isn't the Cylon jump track returned to start? Logic would say that since the humans are in a new location the Cylon should have to restart his calculations in order to jump in.

In both games the humans were overrun by the entire Cylon fleet that jumped in while the humans were on the start of their FTL track. In both games Galatica was destroyed because there were 15 ships firing at it after all the vipers that were out were overrun and damaged or destroyed.

We moved the Cylon track only where a situation of an element of the cylon fleet was activated but there were none of that type ship located on the main board. We added one of the type and advanced the FTL of the Cylon.

So what are we missing?
 
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M. B. Downey
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You have to actually bother destroying some of the cylon ships and cannot just jump away from them.

Also, you DID take out the Cylon Attack Cards, right? This is not an uncommon mistake.
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Charles Sutherland
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Yes we took out the attack cards, the fleet attack cards. We took out the ships early on but the Cylon's FTL jump back in happened both times right after the humans jumped. Thus there were still civ ships on the board and no vipers as they all had to land and a hoard of Cylons on the board. We pushed a few vipers out, managed to move some of the civ ships offboard and kill a few more raiders but we could not keep pace with the raiders and eventually took to much damaged with the battlestar (6 hits). It was a 5 player game and the first game the Cylon leader and the second cylon both were active fairly early, the second game we got 6 range jumps in before the second cylon appeared and the two of them were sitting side by side so they had two turns in a row each game turn.

It was just brutal!
 
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Carl Bussema
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You need to leverage the CAG role more, probably. Use Executive Orders frequently, and if you trust the CAG, you can XO him a lot because every time you XO him or he takes a turn, if he's piloting a viper he can also activate an unmanned viper for free. Those activations add up, useful for picking off lon raiders or rescuring the civilian ships.

I recommend you use two pilots in 5 player games just in case someone turns Cylon, and hope that both don't.
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Charles Sutherland
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I was doing that, as the pres I never had time to draw a quarum card, I was busy XOing the CAG.
 
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Michael Aldridge
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WVjunk wrote:
I was doing that, as the pres I never had time to draw a quarum card, I was busy XOing the CAG.


...and the CAG (as well as other people) should have also been XOing you (provided they trust you).
 
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It sounds like either you got very unlucky, or you haven't adjusted your playstyle to the CFB enough. For the first, well, just play more and hopefully it'll all pan out okay. For the second, the main thing is, jumping early is now not always good. You often want to shoot Cylons down first, or delay jumping until the Cylons jump in first (possibly both).

Space isn't usually too horrific with the CFB, but things can easily go wrong, especially if lots of Launch Raiders come up (Launch or Basestars if there's no basestar on the main board).

I recommend just giving it another go, but be careful about jumping early if the Pursuit track is almost full, and also destroying the last Basestar on the main board - strangely, having one basestar on the board is generally a good thing now as it stops the Pursuit Track, but if it stops it at the double Civ space, take it out!
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Also note that the nuke rules changed with Exodus. They can be used to wipe an entire sector if you're lucky/you play as Anders. And you can use the nukes a bit more frequently than before, now that 6 - Build Nuke is in there.
 
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YGP = yellow, green, purple skill check colors
CFB = Cylon Fleet Board
CAC = Cylon Attack Card
MGB = Main Game Board
bs = basestar

Having 2 pilots does help protect against if one of them reveals, but
1) 2 cards less towards "the primary 3" (YGP) means you'll be failing more skill checks and more likely to lose on resources instead (probably morale). And FTR here, people consider "viper riders" who only draw 1 or less red to NOT be pilots.
2) Only 1 person can be CAG, so while the other pilot can use her snazzy red cards to help out in space, most of the XOs are still going to the CAG, and thus, that 2nd pilot is helping out only about half as much

Nukes shouldn't be the primary way to clear out ships, but with and SP, it should go a long way towards clearing out ships. Getting an 8 and wiping all 8+ and 2 basestars + 1 or 2 heavies can be just the reprieve the Colonial Fleet needs (sad to say, games have been won or lost due to this). Even if you can't count on an 8, or 7 (taking out 3 raiders ain't bad), taking out a basestar at the start of the jump prep track does keep Galactica from taking excessive damage and obscene amounts of raiders from launching. Nice thing here is, unlike the CAC where you nuke a bs, destroy it, and the very next crisis card is a CAC that replaces the one you just destroyed, it takes longer for revealed cylons to put a bs on the MGB.

Keep escorting civvies off the board! Leave 1 to keep raiders from attacking Galactica, but don't have 7 of them lined up all around Galactica! ANY raider that pops in will enter a killing grounds. This is the way to lose 1 to 3 civvies. If you don't have a pilot, the spam Command, using Communications to help round up civvies for easier escorting

You mentioned a 5p game with Cylon Leader, so I assume you have Peggy... use Main Batteries when need be!

If you don;
 
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Robert
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One advice I didn't see yet is to damage basestars but not destroy them. Damaged basestars still consume activations but do nothing with them.

Edit: Note that damaged basestars get repaired when they return to the Cylon Fleet Board.
 
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Mooseulie Ferenczy
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The CFB takes a little bit of adjusting to for humans and change up the strategy. Whereas before hand humans were swimming in turns and the president regularly had a hand full of quorum cards, now the president will receive fewer XOs in favor of getting a fleet of vipers out there before the cylons jump. Whereas before communications was a commonly used location because it bought you time until the next jump, Command easily becomes more useful because it means escorting. Whereas before pilots were a dump class, now you will almost certainly be looking for two in 5 player games. Oddly enough though, Helo gets picked less and less.
There are some general tips though to help the humans.
1)Abuse Apollo. You'll probably get tired of seeing him, but a human CAG Apollo can do some ridiculous turns. AVP can be magical, and an XO to someone on Command can make it more so.
2)Place cylon ships on the main game board as often as possible. Broadcast Location, Cylon Ambush, Cavil's Primacy, anything that puts a basestar on the main game board means that the fleet board won't be advancing and building up and you won't have more civilians to clean up. The trade off is obviously that the Cylon jump track doesn't reach auto-attack, so it will stall and then you could have a bigger attack going into the next round. Do note though that damage basestars don't advance the pursuit track when they cause nothing to happen.
3)Use XOs. XOs to command, XOs to the CAG. Need to keep sending them around.
4)Scout and jump far. Cain becomes an even more obvious pick than she was previously. The farther you jump, the fewer cycles there are for the cylon fleet to build up. That said, balance that against managing the cylon fleet and taking down raiders and basestars.

Most of these tips will generally help keep the humans alive, and most of them get houseruled out or at least weakened after humans start winning. I know Markino keeps pushing for nerfing Apollo. My group and I have changed the rules about placing ships on the main game board so that it can't stall the jump track. And I think almost everyone is displeased that Cain as written doesn't actually have a blind jump. But still, use the rules to your advantage until everyone knows how to adjust properly.
 
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j0frenzy wrote:
.........
1)Abuse Apollo. You'll probably get tired of seeing him, but a human CAG Apollo can do some ridiculous turns. AVP can be magical, and an XO to someone on Command can make it more so.

............
............

I know Markino keeps pushing for nerfing Apollo. My group and I have changed the rules about placing ships on the main game board so that it can't stall the jump track.
Apollo's nice, but an interesting observation with the CFB is if he's a cylon, you either need to Brig him, or accept that you'll need to give him an "XO" sooner or later, as if you don't have other pilots, Command is the only other way to escort ships. He'll just AVP and reveal.


Hmm, I dunno, a variant where if he uses AVP, he must dicard a skill card (random or not... again, dunno) if he can?
 
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Robert Stewart
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Kill Cylon ships rather than waiting them out, aim to keep one (damaged) basestar or a couple of raiders around to keep CFB build-up under control, try to keep a civilian or two around to keep Raiders off Galactica, and try to time jumps so you leave as the Cylons arrive...

It's easy to let the Cylon Fleet get ahead of you if you're not careful - at which point, you're liable to get overwhelmed whatever you do...
 
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Mooseulie Ferenczy
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ackmondual wrote:
Apollo's nice, but an interesting observation with the CFB is if he's a cylon, you either need to Brig him, or accept that you'll need to give him an "XO" sooner or later, as if you don't have other pilots, Command is the only other way to escort ships. He'll just AVP and reveal.


Hmm, I dunno, a variant where if he uses AVP, he must dicard a skill card (random or not... again, dunno) if he can?

The eventual Apollo XO doesn't really come up a whole lot for my group. Conventional wisdom in our group is that pilots should reveal ASAP. The most harm a cylon pilot can do (in our minds at least) is not escort civilians and soak up XOs. It's best in our mind to just wait for a decent attack and then abandon ship.
And Markino's big nerf is that Apollo can't AVP out of sickbay. Not as harsh as it could be, granted.
 
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Charles Sutherland
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I ran through a couple of sets of turns last night, using a Cylon leader who was dedicated to pursuit rolls and fleet placement only, the humans still could not keep up to the pressure that seemed to build.

Game was 5 player with Ros as Pres, Adama as Admiral, Lee as CAG and fighter and Chief as repairs etc.

Managed to time the Human jump to go off the moment the Cylons jumped in, so they had to reset their tract and wait. But with the Cylon leader rolling each turn to advance the tract, and heavy raider activates advancing the pursuit tract the Cylon was ready for a fleet jump long before Galactica could get their act together in time for the enemy appearance.

Having only two fighters out and several civ ships vunerable it was going to be ugly.

There are various things wrong with this model vs. the series. First, the fact that the Cylon can have ships ready to drop into every zone all at once is incorrectly modeled. EVERY TIME the Cylons jumped in during the series, they always were on one side of the battlestar and were coming from one direction during the close to contact phase, there was never an event where the Cylon fleet shows up surrounding the human fleet that I recall.

Secondly the pursuit tract should have to reset it's counter each time the Humans make a jump. In 33 the Cylons were only able to jump every 33 minutes, this was using a tracking device in the fleet. The situation where the Cylon leader can time his pursuit track to jump the turn after the humans jump places the humans at a huge disadvantage.

Here is a simple challenege, have the cylon leader do nothing but ship placement and pursuit advance from the Cylon bridge and see how long the humans last. This does not even take into account the second cylon that will eventually pop up who can also do the same thing can he not? Making the humans who are already over matched even more so.

When you have the ability to launch maybe 4 vipers in a turn, and the enemy has 12+ inbound, the odds of standing up to that are nil!
 
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Robert
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You should have punished the CL by preventing his secondary goal and making him lose the game. Then he will probably play less aggressive next time.

Certainly the humans have a tough job if you play with two full Cylons and they both reveal early and start spamming Basestar Bridge, especially when the humans are out of Pilots. I'm not sure whether it's possible to survive against those odds but of course this is a worst case scenario which will happen rarely.
 
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WVjunk wrote:
Game was 5 player with Ros as Pres, Adama as Admiral, Lee as CAG and fighter and Chief as repairs etc.
You said you had a Cylon Leader... who was the CL? Am curious since they do play differently.

WVjunk wrote:
There are various things wrong with this model vs. the series. First, the fact that the Cylon can have ships ready to drop into every zone all at once is incorrectly modeled. EVERY TIME the Cylons jumped in during the series, they always were on one side of the battlestar and were coming from one direction during the close to contact phase, there was never an event where the Cylon fleet shows up surrounding the human fleet that I recall.

Secondly the pursuit tract should have to reset it's counter each time the Humans make a jump. In 33 the Cylons were only able to jump every 33 minutes, this was using a tracking device in the fleet. The situation where the Cylon leader can time his pursuit track to jump the turn after the humans jump places the humans at a huge disadvantage.
The game's thematic, but not THAT thematic. Heck, would you want to go back and modify all of the CAC so that all the basestars, heavies, and raiders only show up on one side while the Colonial Fleet ships only on the other?

Actually... they're jumping in, so they could just as easily end up all around the fleet.

WVjunk wrote:
Here is a simple challenege, have the cylon leader do nothing but ship placement and pursuit advance from the Cylon bridge and see how long the humans last. This does not even take into account the second cylon that will eventually pop up who can also do the same thing can he not? Making the humans who are already over matched even more so.
umbaci wrote:
Certainly the humans have a tough job if you play with two full Cylons and they both reveal early and start spamming Basestar Bridge, especially when the humans are out of Pilots. I'm not sure whether it's possible to survive against those odds but of course this is a worst case scenario which will happen rarely.


Agreed.... Even without the CFB, having 2 pre-sleeper cylons aggressively going after you is still an uphill battle right there.

 
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Charles Sutherland
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If the Cylon leader uses the bridge to do Place 1 Basestar or 3 raiders, considering there are 17 raiders off board, it will take 6 turns to get all the raiders active. Assuming the humans destroy 2 of the three original raiders make it 7 turns.

The second option is the die roll to increase the pursuit, 5/8 chance each time to do so. Finally any Crisis cards that have the heavy raider will cause a HR to be placed on the CFB and the pursuit track also advances.

So the Cylons enter the post human jump with maybe 17-20 raiders in Area 2 or 4, They will also have a 25% chance of at least one heavy raider in zone 2/4 and thus be one move away from boarding the ship.

The only thing I can see for the humans to do is, first scout a lot to see the top Crisis card and bury it if it has any reference to Heavy Raiders on it as they will advance the pursuit track until one is placed on the main board and allow a 25% chance of zone 2/4 placement. By knowing if the top card has a jump prep on it the humans can dedicate someone to fire peggy's guns at the raiders or run the FTL as needed.

Secondly anyone with a Calculations card I assume could play it against the cylon roll for pursuit and cause a -1 die roll mod making the pursuit track a 50/50 shot. Between those two tactics I believe the humans may be able to spool up the FTL's in time to jump away, timing their jump to coincide with the Cylon jump since the Cylon jump executes first, the humans in effect reset the cylon track and gain 1-3 positions advanced towards the 8 they need.

I assume the Calc card can be played on a cylon roll, as it is the only card I see that allows a negative number modifier.

Anytime a raptor can not be used to see the top Crisis card then the humans should activate Peggy's FTL as a precaution against no FTL prep on the Crisis card played.

If the cards fall well the humans can get the cylons up to 15 or 20+ player turns before they jump in, assuming a 5 player game.

Finally the humans should time their jumps to be at level 3 before the next jump and hope they can pull a 2 or 3 for the next jump, this in turn will leave them at 5 or 6 level and put them within possibly one more jump to reach 8.

I think we simply may not have played good human tactics in our last two games, we concentrated on more fighter vs raider activity and did not intel any of the crisis cards.
 
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Carl Bussema
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If there's a basestar on the board, a heavy raider icon will not advance the pursuit track. This is why you always want a basestar hanging around. Let the Cylon fleet jump in, destroy some of the raiders, and then leave the basestar alone, or damage it once to see if you can stop its weapons or launch bays.
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WVjunk wrote:
I assume the Calc card can be played on a cylon roll, as it is the only card I see that allows a negative number modifier.

Strategic Plannings can also be used on CFB die rolls - useful if you really need to keep your jump prep or don't want the cylon picking damage tokens from the basestar bridge.

All die roll modifiers can be used on any die roll unless explicitly stated otherwise (ie Kat's Hotshot ability cannot be modified).
 
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Charles Sutherland
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If the Heavy Raider Icon appears and there is a basestar with no heavy raiders on the board, how does that stop the heavy raider placement off board and or stop the ftl cycle advance?
 
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Carl Bussema
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The basestar has to launch one in that case.
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Robert Stewart
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WVjunk wrote:
If the Heavy Raider Icon appears and there is a basestar with no heavy raiders on the board, how does that stop the heavy raider placement off board and or stop the ftl cycle advance?


On a Heavy Raider activation:

1) Centurions advance
AND
2) If there is at least one heavy raider on the main board:
- Move heavy raiders toward boarding
Else
- If there is at least one basestar on the main board:
- - Each Basestars on the main game board launches 1 Heavy Raider
- Else
- - "Nothing happens", so place a Heavy Raider on the CFB and advance Pursuit
- End If
End If

Note that the CFB only gets involved if there's no basestar on the main board (even if it can't launch raiders due to damaged hangars) and that the presence of Centurions has absolutely no effect on what happens with Heavy Raiders in space (I'd have to recheck the rules and FAQs to be sure that the pursuit track can advance despite Centurions being aboard)
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Charles Sutherland
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Ah so only a regular raider not on the main map would cause a raider placement on the CFB since the sentence about launching a raider if a basestar is on the main board is missing!
 
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Carl Bussema
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If there's a basestar on the board, then NO ICONS can advance the pursuit track.

Basestars attack -> it attacks
Launch raiders -> it launches raiders (if you run out, you can pull from the CFB, see Exodus rules)
Raiders -> either the raiders on the main board will activate or if there are none, it will launch 2 raiders (again if you run out, you can pull from the CFB)
Heavy Raiders -> centurions will advance. Then any heavies on the main board will activate, or if there are none, you'll launch a new heavy from the basestar (if you run out, you can pull from the CFB).

So when do you advance the pursuit track?
Basestars attack or Launch raiders with no basestars on main game board.
Raider attack with no raiders AND no basestars on main game board.
Heavy activate with no centurions, no heavies, AND no basestars on main game board.
 
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