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Subject: (Another) Am I being reasonable? [Tanga] rss

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Mike Jones
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So, at the end of May I ordered 3 copies of In the Shadow of the Emperor.

Shipping on it was actually FAST. I got it on May 1st. BUT, when I opened it, it contained 3 copies of Make Knight The Boardgame.

I decided to do the right thing and let them know to error. The of course took a week to get back to me with a short reply that a return label would be sent to me with the correct games.

So, earlier this week the games come with the label and no further instructions. This has only happened to me once before when CSI sent me a Magic Card that was suppose to go somewhere else. For them, I just put it back on the front porch and the next day it was gone. So, I repacked it and put it out and sent them a note.

It's been sitting there for three days. I sent the another note because I didn't want to leave it out over the weekend.

They replied back "When a return shipping label is created you will most likely have to drop the package off at a UPS store/ FedEx Pickup location or the post office to mail the package."

I get that they aren't the one shipping, but my business is with them. They advertised it, they sold it, I paid them. The business transaction (and 'implied' contract) is between me and them. The vague answer is almost like they are washing their hands of it.

But, that's not the issue. I replied back that I ride a motorcycle and that it would be fairly hard for me to take it somewhere. And that really it was their mistake and that most people would have probably not even told them about it and pocketed the difference.

As I see it I came forward to let them know they made a $140 mistake. Should it really be my responsibility to find some to take the package some place to drop off?

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Matt Shinners
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Guantanamo wrote:
Should it really be my responsibility to find some to take the package some place to drop off?


Yep. This stuff happens, unfortunately. As a party to the contract, you're expected to take reasonable steps in case the other party makes a mistake to correct that mistake. Driving a package to a UPS store wouldn't be considered unreasonable.

And yes, you're a better person than some who would keep the Mage Knights. However, keeping them would constitute a crime.
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David Sant
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depending on shipping method many of them will come pick up packages if you call them.
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Cliff Roberts
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I've had the same issue with returns. I've had to drive 30 minutes just to ship it at an "official" UPS store and such. Most recently, the original shipper had UPS arrange to pick it up again. My wife met them at the door while I was away and the UPS driver informed her that she can arrange a pick-up even without a UPS account. News to me, but I don't have much return shipping experience.

Job well done on the honesty, though.
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Paul DeStefano
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Guantanamo wrote:
So, at the end of May I ordered 3 copies of In the Shadow of the Emperor.

Shipping on it was actually FAST. I got it on May 1st.


Holy crap! That IS fast when you receive it before you order.

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Corey Ellis
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No matter what any contract says...this is basic customer service. They should have it picked up. Whatever 5 to 10 bucks UPS charges them for the pick up is still more than $100 loss that they could have potentially had if you just didnt say anything.

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Scott M.
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Honestly your being totally unreasonable...

WTF are you thinking returning 3 copies of MKtBG, for 3 copies of whatever you ordered..CMMON!..

Say thank you and move on....




(post made simply poking fun at situation)
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MattShinners wrote:
And yes, you're a better person than some who would keep the Mage Knights. However, keeping them would constitute a crime.


really?
Isn't there a law that if someone ships you something you get to keep it free? Remember the commercial with the eskimo and his electric fan?
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Jeff S
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I don't think it's your responsibility to take them to the UPS Store. You've done the right thing now they need to do the same. I think you should let them know that the packages are available for pickup and they should let you know when that will be.
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Brad Musil
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MattShinners wrote:
Guantanamo wrote:
Should it really be my responsibility to find some to take the package some place to drop off?


Yep. This stuff happens, unfortunately. As a party to the contract, you're expected to take reasonable steps in case the other party makes a mistake to correct that mistake. Driving a package to a UPS store wouldn't be considered unreasonable.


Spoken like a true lawyer! This is what drives me crazy about legal standards...there's this appeal to what a "reasonable" person would do all the time. Call me crazy, but I think a lot of reasonable people disagree about a lot of things all the time, so how does this sort of appeal help? Won't we just disagree about what counts as being reasonable? What does the legal system have to say about this issue?

Personally, I feel that he has already taken reasonable steps insofar as he contacted them about their mistake. Contrary to what other reasonable people think, I consider it unreasonable to further burden the OP by requiring him to invest any more time into remedying their mistake.

Kudos to the OP--I believe you did the right thing, and that you should feel like you're under no further obligation (let them sue you if they don't want to come pick it up ).
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Mike Jones
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Geosphere wrote:
Guantanamo wrote:
So, at the end of May I ordered 3 copies of In the Shadow of the Emperor.

Shipping on it was actually FAST. I got it on May 1st.


Holy crap! That IS fast when you receive it before you order.



It was the end of April

Months all blur to me.
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Mike Jones
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Anonymous Apathy wrote:
...Won't we just disagree about what counts as being reasonable? What does the legal system have to say about this issue?...


I mentioned I ride I motorcycle, I guess I should have said I ONLY ride a motorcycle, don't have a car AND have a motorcycle ONLY license, so I can't drive it to a place.

I could ask my wife, but she's been annoyed that they have been in her living room the past 2 and 1/2 weeks and we have three 'active' kids. She's normally extremely busy with them. I've had to leave work early three times this week just to cover transportation for one of the kids because she's been double booked.
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Tom Scutt
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Just post your address here and I'm sure the "UPS man" will be round tomorrow to pick them up. Problem solved
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Caleb
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MattShinners wrote:
Guantanamo wrote:
Should it really be my responsibility to find some to take the package some place to drop off?


Yep. This stuff happens, unfortunately. As a party to the contract, you're expected to take reasonable steps in case the other party makes a mistake to correct that mistake. Driving a package to a UPS store wouldn't be considered unreasonable.

And yes, you're a better person than some who would keep the Mage Knights. However, keeping them would constitute a crime.


Ha! Yeah right. My response to that is 'nuts'. If the stupid company wants them back so bad, they can pay for front-door pickup of the package. Other than that, it's mine.
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Aaron Silverman
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What did they say when you mentioned that you ride a bike and can't easily bring the package to a UPS location?
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LSU LSU
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There's not much chance that I'd waste an hour of my time to drive their package around town, even aside from the motorcycle situation. I'd just call them back and say - look, I helped you guys out. I could have just kept the games you sent in error. Send a truck to pick these up.
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Erik Rodriguez
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Should have told them you only received 2 copies of Mage Knight whistle

(This is a joke. Don't cry about it.)
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David Boeren
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I would say that a "reasonable" person would drop them off at UPS (or whatever) *if* they were able to do so with no more than a minor effort.

UPS is 5 minutes from your house, or on the way to your work - that probably constitutes a minor effort that most people would be willing to do.

If UPS is 30 minutes away, or you have no good way to transport the package, then it's no longer a minor effort and I wouldn't expect someone to perform it. It's then on you to explain that this is not a minor effort for you (which it seems like he has done), and then I'd say the ball is back in the company's court to arrange a package pickup.

I would call them again to make sure they understand that this is not something you can easily do (maybe the word did not get across to them) and then let them decide whether they want to do a pickup or just let you keep the games.
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Ben Crane
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FWIW, this is from the FTC's website (page headed Unordered Merchandise).

I couldn't figure out how to embed the link in that sentence up there, so here it is if you are interested in the whole page. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro15.shtm

Federal Trade Commission wrote:
What do you do when you receive merchandise that you didn’t order? According to the Federal Trade Commission, you don’t have to pay for it. Federal laws prohibit mailing unordered merchandise to consumers and then demanding payment.

Q. Am I obligated to return or pay for merchandise I never ordered?

A. No. If you receive merchandise that you didn’t order, you have a legal right to keep it as a free gift.

Q. What should I do if the unordered merchandise I received was the result of an honest shipping error?

A. Write the seller and offer to return the merchandise, provided the seller pays for postage and handling. Give the seller a specific and reasonable amount of time (say 30 days) to pick up the merchandise or arrange to have it returned at no expense to you. Tell the seller that you reserve the right to keep the merchandise or dispose of it after the specified time has passed.


As another person who drives only a motorcycle, I completely understand how you would be unable to get a box with 3 copies of MK to the post office, and based on the above, it looks like you have no obligation to do so or to wrangle your friends into doing so for you.

This law was put in place, based on the rest of that page, to prevent a scam where a company send you unordered merchandise, then tries to bill you for it after you open the package. If they send it to you unsolicited, it is yours.

I'd say send another note to Tanga saying that they have 30 days to arrange front-door pickup of the package, or you are keeping it, as is your legal right. (and if you felt like sending one my way as thanks for the link, I'd even pay for pick-up at your house! (: )
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LSU LSU
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Bascaria wrote:
FWIW, this is from the FTC's website (page headed Unordered Merchandise).

I couldn't figure out how to embed the link in that sentence up there, so here it is if you are interested in the whole page. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/products/pro15.shtm

Federal Trade Commission wrote:
What do you do when you receive merchandise that you didn’t order? According to the Federal Trade Commission, you don’t have to pay for it. Federal laws prohibit mailing unordered merchandise to consumers and then demanding payment.

Q. Am I obligated to return or pay for merchandise I never ordered?

A. No. If you receive merchandise that you didn’t order, you have a legal right to keep it as a free gift.

Q. What should I do if the unordered merchandise I received was the result of an honest shipping error?

A. Write the seller and offer to return the merchandise, provided the seller pays for postage and handling. Give the seller a specific and reasonable amount of time (say 30 days) to pick up the merchandise or arrange to have it returned at no expense to you. Tell the seller that you reserve the right to keep the merchandise or dispose of it after the specified time has passed.


As another person who drives only a motorcycle, I completely understand how you would be unable to get a box with 3 copies of MK to the post office, and based on the above, it looks like you have no obligation to do so or to wrangle your friends into doing so for you.

This law was put in place, based on the rest of that page, to prevent a scam where a company send you unordered merchandise, then tries to bill you for it after you open the package. If they send it to you unsolicited, it is yours.

I'd say send another note to Tanga saying that they have 30 days to arrange front-door pickup of the package, or you are keeping it, as is your legal right. (and if you felt like sending one my way as thanks for the link, I'd even pay for pick-up at your house! (: )


I am not a lawyer, but I wonder if this actually applies here. The company didn't just send him a game out of the blue. They just sent him the wrong game. I used to be in a CD club - where you got a bunch of "free CDs" in exchange for buying a few more. They would send you a CD a month unless you declined it. I forgot to decline once or twice and they argued that if I opened a package by mistake, I was stuck with it. Not really sure how that might apply here.
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Ben Crane
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LSUtigers wrote:
I am not a lawyer, but I wonder if this actually applies here. The company didn't just send him a game out of the blue. They just sent him the wrong game. I used to be in a CD club - where you got a bunch of "free CDs" in exchange for buying a few more. They would send you a CD a month unless you declined it. I forgot to decline once or twice and they argued that if I opened a package by mistake, I was stuck with it. Not really sure how that might apply here.


When you joined that club, you signed a contract to buy their monthly CD unless you specifically said not to send it.

This is a case of a company mistakenly shipping the wrong merchandise. It was an honest shipping error on their part, but they sent the wrong thing. I'd say that falls pretty clearly under the "What should I do if the unordered merchandise I received was the result of an honest shipping error?" question. The answer there is, inform them of their mistake, give them a reasonable time to reclaim the goods at no expense to yourself, and if they don't, it's your stuff.

There wasn't a contract between the OP and Tanga that Tanga would send him stuff regularly and he'd pay for it unless he said otherwise. He ordered one game from them, and they sent the wrong one. That act has no bearing on the contract they did enter into, where they are supposed to send the right game. The OP can (and ethically should) attempt to return the mistaken goods, but he doesn't have to get a friend to drive him and the box to the post office to do so. If Tanga can't arrange front door pick-up, the stuff is his. (In the same way that if I order a book from Amazon and they accidentally ship me a Guttenberg Bible instead, they can't subsequently charge me millions of dollars for the goods they sent me by mistake, nor can they legally obligate me to go out of my way to return the Bible to them).

EDIT: From the FTC site again:

FTC wrote:
Q. Is there any way to protect myself from shippers of unordered merchandise?

A. When you participate in sweepstakes or order goods advertised as "free," "trial," or "unusually low priced," be cautious. Read all the fine print to determine if you are joining a "club," with regular purchasing or notification obligations.Keep a copy of the advertisement or catalog that led you to place the order, too. This may make it easier to contact the company if a problem arises.


Tanga isn't a club with regular purchasing or notification obligations. Your music club was. That's the difference.
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Bascaria,

There's definitely a difference in that I was in a club. Like I said, I'm not a lawyer. And I completely agree - the company should figure out how to get there game back without any effort on the customer's part.
 
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Bascaria wrote:

I'd say send another note to Tanga saying that they have 30 days to arrange front-door pickup of the package, or you are keeping it, as is your legal right.


Better yet, 27 days... then, perfect timing to bring them as prize games to RapierCon
 
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Geosphere wrote:
Guantanamo wrote:
So, at the end of May I ordered 3 copies of In the Shadow of the Emperor.

Shipping on it was actually FAST. I got it on May 1st.


Holy crap! That IS fast when you receive it before you order.



Pre-destination paradox shipping is awesome.
It shows even before I knew I wanted to order it.
Tanga, keep those site features coming.
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dsant wrote:
depending on shipping method many of them will come pick up packages if you call them.


this
 
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