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Subject: Question about concentration and another one about Tornado rss

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Jani Pietikäinen
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So I have two separate questions:

1) The wording on Concentration's advanced ability seems to imply that I can use it on special attacks, but not on special blocks (not +2 for ice- or fire blocks). Am I reading the card correctly?

2) The Tornado spell (and possibly some other cards as well), says that "Play this only in the Attack phase of combat". Is 'Ranged and Siege Attack phase' a valid time to use this spell? I should think so, but then there is also the actual 'Attack phase' with no prefixes...
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Daniel Corban
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pietu85 wrote:
So I have two separate questions:

1) The wording on Concentration's advanced ability seems to imply that I can use it on special attacks, but not on special blocks (not +2 for ice- or fire blocks). Am I reading the card correctly?

2) The Tornado spell (and possibly some other cards as well), says that "Play this only in the Attack phase of combat". Is 'Ranged and Siege Attack phase' a valid time to use this spell? I should think so, but then there is also the actual 'Attack phase' with no prefixes...


1) It is my understanding, that when something modifies "attack" or "block", it modifies any type of attack or block. For example, if you used Concentration on Cold Toughness, it would indeed have a base value of 7 ice block.

2) There is only one "attack phase". Cards that have this wording can only be used during that attack phase, and not the "ranged and siege attack phase". I would assume that if a card was intended to be used in either of the phases, it would say "an attack phase".
 
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Jeff Thompson
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dcorban wrote:
pietu85 wrote:
So I have two separate questions:

1) The wording on Concentration's advanced ability seems to imply that I can use it on special attacks, but not on special blocks (not +2 for ice- or fire blocks). Am I reading the card correctly?

2) The Tornado spell (and possibly some other cards as well), says that "Play this only in the Attack phase of combat". Is 'Ranged and Siege Attack phase' a valid time to use this spell? I should think so, but then there is also the actual 'Attack phase' with no prefixes...


1) It is my understanding, that when something modifies "attack" or "block", it modifies any type of attack or block. For example, if you used Concentration on Cold Toughness, it would indeed have a base value of 7 ice block.



It is my understanding that when a card says "Attack" it means "Physical Attack" only unless it specifies "any type of attack".
 
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Daniel Corban
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It depends on the usage of the word attack. If something gives you "attack", then yes, it is only physical. If something modifies the "attack value" of a card, then it modifies any attack type.

I can see where there may be some ambiguity with Concentration, since it specifies "any type of attack", but for some reason doesn't specify "any type of block". I don't even know why they even bothered to specify anything. The card seems intended to simply add 2 to any of those values on the target card. So you simply treat the card as if it were printed with values 2 higher.

It should be worded similarly to Into the Heat to avoid ambiguity. So, something like "all move, influence, block, and attack values are increased by 2".
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Jeff Thompson
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Where in the rules does it say that if a card says "Attack X" it means physical attack X, but if a card says "modify an Attack value" it means any type? If I read a card that says modify an Attack value, it means modify a Physical Attack value. At least that's they way I interpret the rules.

Edit: If I'm wrong, it will make the game a lot easier for me. I'm 2-2 in solo conquest with a high score of 188. If I have this rule wrong, I'll easily get into the 200s and win much more often.
 
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Daniel Corban
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Can you give an example of a card that modifies an attack value, but only a physical attack?

Concentration and Into the Heat both modify all attack types. This is clear in the wording of the cards. My response to the OP's question was more a rule of thumb than a "rule", as the cards leave no ambiguity in the first place.
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Matt Albritton
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Tompy wrote:
If I have this rule wrong, I'll easily get into the 200s and win much more often.


That's why you can increase the city levels by so much. You won't win too often if you set the levels correctly.

If you play solo, you can even fight against two mega cities (wasn't sure of the plural of megapolis!).
 
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Jani Pietikäinen
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Thank you for your answers
I think I'm going to go with Daniel's interpretation. Thematically, I guess there is no reason why a Mage Knight couldn't concentrate on blocks as versatilely as on attacks.
 
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Daniel Corban
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I accept that I could be wrong. If I am not, then the Concentration card should be re-worded using the phrasing of Into the Heat. It's possible that the card was written in oversight without the unique Cold Toughness (and Battle Versatility) in mind, and only Determination.
 
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David desJardins
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I think Concentration applies to any type of Block or Attack. I do agree the language on the card is lacking.
 
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Martin Presley
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Kubigaruma wrote:
If you play solo, you can even fight against two mega cities (wasn't sure of the plural of megapolis!).


Megapolises, or if you want to be true to the original Greek root, Megapoleis.
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Steve Wardell
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I think Concentration applies to any type of Block or Attack. I do agree the language on the card is lacking.


I assumed that when they said "type" on the card, they were referring to ranged and siege, as well as normal attacks, not the elemental type. Which would be they said any type of attack, but not block (since there aren't different types of block).
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Boris Dvorkin
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Guys, I think Steve's nailed it.
 
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David desJardins
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The rulebook refers to Blocks of an elemental type, on page 8.
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M.J.E. Hendriks
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I think Concentration applies to any type of Block or Attack. I do agree the language on the card is lacking.


Agree. Thematically this also makes most sense (concentration).
 
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Luke
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Hi guys, this is what I understand from the rest of the language employed in the rulebooks.

for cards played sideways the walkthrough guide states at page 8:
"Any card (except Wounds) can be played as Move 1, Influence 1,
Attack 1, or Block 1."
and this doesn't include Fire/Ice attack (as confirmed at page 14 under Colors of Attack).

Concentration card uses the same language structure:
"if that effect gives you Move, Influence, Block, or any type of Attack..."
this will clearly not count for elemental Block, but just (physical) Block.
It would have no sense to count for elemental Attack only (and not elemental Block).

furthermore anytime the manual refers to an elemental type of attack/block, outside any paragraph that clearly concerns elemental damage/resistance, it clearly states that it is an elemental Attack/Block:
Rulebook - page 4 - left column:

• They can’t be played to provide Ranged Attack, Siege
Attack, or any kind of elemental(Fire, Ice or Cold Fire)
Attack or Block

DaviddesJ wrote:
The rulebook refers to Blocks of an elemental type, on page 8.


concerning this, please note that the rulebook at page 8 also refers to "type of Block" to refer to elemental Block (paragraph 5a on elemental blocks):
"any type of block is efficient against physical attack".

This means that if Concentration referred to elemental attack/block it would have stated: "Move, Influence, any type of Block, or any type of Attack".
while it just states Block (so no elemental block) and any type of attack (siege, ranged, melee, but not elemental).
 
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Daniel Corban
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To paraphrase: "never attribute intent to that which can be explained by incompetence".

The card text could simply be a mistake. There are several examples of cards which are unintentionally worded ambiguously, a few which were corrected in the second printing. This could easily be another added to that list.

Common and thematic sense would question why the card improved elemental attacks, but not blocks. I feel for this reason alone the card is incorrect in some way.
 
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Ilias Sellountos
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Soul_Guile wrote:
Concentration card uses the same language structure:
"if that effect gives you Move, Influence, Block, or any type of Attack..."
this will clearly not count for elemental Block, but just (physical) Block.
It would have no sense to count for elemental Attack only (and not elemental Block).


I see the phrase "any type of Attack" as meant to include Ranged/Siege attacks, not refer to elemental attacks and therefore the lack of an equivalent "any type of block" in the wording does not exclude elemental blocks.
 
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Serge Levert
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I'm new to the MK boards... How has such a fundamental question not been resolved by the designer/faq like a year ago?
 
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that Matt
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entranced wrote:
I'm new to the MK boards... How has such a fundamental question not been resolved by the designer/faq like a year ago?

Does six months ago work for you?
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Serge Levert
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tumorous wrote:
entranced wrote:
I'm new to the MK boards... How has such a fundamental question not been resolved by the designer/faq like a year ago?

Does six months ago work for you?

That works, thanks. It's a bit sad that the answer never reached this thread, leaving many still in the dark.
 
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David desJardins
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The point was made in the previous thread that there's some slight ambiguity in the text of the card, but none of the principals were convinced that a clarification is necessary. Personally I think it's borderline. Writing a FAQ (choosing which questions are really important, and giving crisp, clear answers) is not so easy.
 
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Daniel Corban
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Clearly, the card could be worded better, and superior phrasing has been used on other cards that have the same effect (Into the Heat). I am glad to see the card was eventually clarified. I am not subscribed nor do I browse the FAQ thread, so I would have never seen the answer.
 
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that Matt
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dcorban wrote:
Clearly, the card could be worded better, and superior phrasing has been used on other cards that have the same effect (Into the Heat). I am glad to see the card was eventually clarified. I am not subscribed nor do I browse the FAQ thread, so I would have never seen the answer.

Well, a lot of clarifications happen on the FAQ thread.

But if a specific question comes up, and you want to know whether there is an official answer, the search function is quite handy.
 
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Luke
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thanks everyone
 
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