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No Retreat! The Russian Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Move units from Surrendered, Destroyed, Shattered to Rail. rss

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Thomas Koba
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Don't have the game in front of me right now.

I had the card, which said: "Move 2 units from Surrendered, Destroyed or Shattered to railway movement".

Is it legal to play this card right after Supply Check, so that all the surrendered units immediately get onto the train and detrain onto the map in the same phase as they surrendered? Or is this card only playable in the Movement phase, as that's when units usualy step onto trains?

The card does not say anything about "Play in movement phase", it just starts with "Move units from..."
 
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Pone McPoneface
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It is card #2, Gott Mit Uns/Manpower Reserves [quote]: Move up to two units from any of the Shattered, Destroyed or Surrendered Boxes to the Rail Movement Box.

A very powerful and useful card for the Soviet's and playable at any time by my interpretation of the card.
 
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Harald Torvatn
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Pone4games wrote:
It is card #2, Gott Mit Uns/Manpower Reserves [quote]: Move up to two units from any of the Shattered, Destroyed or Surrendered Boxes to the Rail Movement Box.

A very powerful and useful card for the Soviet's and playable at any time by my interpretation of the card.

The "Apropriate Timing" rule says events must be played when their corresponding actions occur. So that card can only be played at the time units are moved into the rail movement box, not at other times.
 
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Ryan Nip
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The rule Harald refers to is under [5.0] THE CARDS:
Quote:
Appropriate Timing
Events must be played when their corresponding actions are performed according to the Sequence of Play (4.0).

EXAMPLE: You must play a card that gives you a free unit upgrade during your own Organization Phase, not during your opponent’s Combat Phase.


That said, I share a different view to Harald's:
Quote:
[5.3.1] Event Effects: Events describe their exact timing and use on the cards themselves. When not specified, that Event may be performed at any time.


Since that no exact timing is specified on Soviet Card #2, I suppose I can be played any time.

For the "Appropriate Timing" issue, I think it is not applicable in this case. The reason is that there are two apparent "appropriate" timing:
(1) Organization Phase (Removal of units from Shattered, Destroyed or Surrendered Boxes)
(2) Movement Phase (Placement of units in the Rail Movement Box)

Indeed, I think that the card-text always trumps the rule, because:
Quote:
[5.3.2] Event Precedence: When there is a conflict between Event text and the Rules, the Event text takes precedence.


A final note: The example quoted under "Appropriate Timing" refers to either German Card #3 or Soviet Card #8. Coincidentally, both cards explicitly specify that the respective Event has to be played during Organization Phase.
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David desJardins
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Siinji wrote:
I had the card, which said: "Move 2 units from Surrendered, Destroyed or Shattered to railway movement".

Is it legal to play this card right after Supply Check, so that all the surrendered units immediately get onto the train and detrain onto the map in the same phase as they surrendered?


Sure.
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I think that up to two of the just surrendered units could go to the Rail Movement Box, but no more. (And remember to tag the Surrendered Units Box and give the German player the Event VPs they are due.) But they don't detrain in the same phase they surrendered. The text on the card doesn't permit that. That happens in the following phase.

The point I'm trying to make is that while up to two units may go to the Railway Movement Box, does this mean that you are permitted to exceed the maximum limit of three units in the Railway Movement Box?

...The way around all that, I suppose, is to play the card during the Detraining Phase. Detrain down to one unit, then play the card, and continue Detraining.
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David desJardins
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BradyLS wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is that while up to two units may go to the Railway Movement Box, does this mean that you are permitted to exceed the maximum limit of three units in the Railway Movement Box?


No.
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