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Subject: What if we share ONE dungeon? rss

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Freemanfly Feng
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It's just a rough thought that if all the players share ONE dungeon board(a bigger one) and build their tunnels and rooms in it, will it bring more fun and interactions?

We can differ this cards by putting different colors of tokens on them. As for the adventurers, a group of the same number of players enters the dungeon,and when they meet the first crossroads, the player with the less evil points chooses where they will move. The second less player decides the second crossroads, and so on.

Furthermore, there are 4 kinds of rooms that we can build in the dungeon, so we can even allow each player to build only one certain type of rooms, therefore we dungeon young lords have to cooperate to fight against the heroes and the paladins.

It's just a brainstorming without deeping consideration, What do you think?
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Alejandro Rascon
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Oo, this could be a first step in a cool way of doing a coop variant. Sounds intriguing.
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David Jones
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I think this would have to be a co-op variant because it is essentially going to penalize the first player who puts down tunnels. Their tunnels/rooms will be the first to be conquered when the party comes in. Traps would become nearly useless as there would be 3 or 4 rogues entering the dungeon at the same time. Also, a host of clerics will heal anybody who not outright killed. Wizards become less effective because, again, you have three or four of them in the party, but they're only casting one spell. I think its an interesting idea, but its going to require a few playthroughs to get everything balanced correctly.
 
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Dale Moore
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Does sound very Co-op to me.

An important part of the Variant. Must have all non-player boards active.

The game must compete with you for resources Because you and the other players are all working together.

You will need to copy the cards and make sets for the Non-players.

And I think you Should either keep track of evil separately, and bring the the heroes that match the most evil player. Or always bring the Paladin.
 
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B C Z
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You'd have to rejigger how the adventurers attack in a big way.
 
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Andy Y
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Or here's a non-coop version... what if we were all mining into the same pile of dirt, with our own entrance, but we were competing with each other for space inside? With mechanics for taking control of each others' rooms or tunnels, or diverting adventurers from my space into yours?
 
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Freemanfly Feng
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davypi wrote:
I think this would have to be a co-op variant because it is essentially going to penalize the first player who puts down tunnels. Their tunnels/rooms will be the first to be conquered when the party comes in.


Oh, this is a point.
What if the 4 players share one dungeon with 4 entrances, one at each corner. Each lord starts building his tunnels/rooms from one of these entrances, and heroes enter the dungeon from different entrances according to the evil points.
So lords' tunnels/rooms can entangle with each other and their imps may dig golds in others' tunnels. Monsters of Lord A may help a nextdoor monster owned by Lord B. There can also be ways that one lord drives his intruders into other lords' tunnels/rooms. All of these can happen in conditions but I have no idea what they are yet, lol.


juffowup wrote:
Or here's a non-coop version... what if we were all mining into the same pile of dirt, with our own entrance, but we were competing with each other for space inside? With mechanics for taking control of each others' rooms or tunnels, or diverting adventurers from my space into yours?


Do i mean the same thing as yours?
 
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Dale Moore
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freemanfly wrote:
davypi wrote:
I think this would have to be a co-op variant because it is essentially going to penalize the first player who puts down tunnels. Their tunnels/rooms will be the first to be conquered when the party comes in.


Oh, this is a point.
What if the 4 players share one dungeon with 4 entrances, one at each corner. Each lord starts building his tunnels/rooms from one of these entrances, and heroes enter the dungeon from different entrances according to the evil points.
So lords' tunnels/rooms can entangle with each other and their imps may dig golds in others' tunnels. Monsters of Lord A may help a nextdoor monster owned by Lord B. There can also be ways that one lord drives his intruders into other lords' tunnels/rooms. All of these can happen in conditions but I have no idea what they are yet, lol.


juffowup wrote:
Or here's a non-coop version... what if we were all mining into the same pile of dirt, with our own entrance, but we were competing with each other for space inside? With mechanics for taking control of each others' rooms or tunnels, or diverting adventurers from my space into yours?


Do i mean the same thing as yours?


co-op sounds interesting. I find that game hard enough as it is without adding more cut throat. I played not that long ago and the winner had -10 points.
 
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Noble Knave
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Dale-not-Chip wrote:
co-op sounds interesting. I find that game hard enough as it is without adding more cut throat. I played not that long ago and the winner had -10 points.




Care to elaborate? I'm trying to fathom how the Underlord and everyone else didn't manage to get their licenses.
 
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Dale Moore
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thenobleknave wrote:
Dale-not-Chip wrote:
co-op sounds interesting. I find that game hard enough as it is without adding more cut throat. I played not that long ago and the winner had -10 points.




Care to elaborate? I'm trying to fathom how the Underlord and everyone else didn't manage to get their licenses.


The details are foggy. There were 3 of us. I was just evil as could be. couldn't shake it and so I got creamed in the dungeon both times got both paladins. Had a bunch of dead halls and rooms this hurt me at tax time because I had to build so much extra. One player was new and just didn't manage well while learning. Lost some monsters because she couldn't feed them and got pretty beat up in the fight. the third player was short quests and got hit with spells and healers, and I think had money issues too.

I remember laughing a lot and having fun as we all got creamed in our own special way. I should have made a session report right after. it would have been a fun read. But it's been months now so I can't remember exactly.
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Andy Y
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freemanfly wrote:
davypi wrote:
I think this would have to be a co-op variant because it is essentially going to penalize the first player who puts down tunnels. Their tunnels/rooms will be the first to be conquered when the party comes in.


Oh, this is a point.
What if the 4 players share one dungeon with 4 entrances, one at each corner. Each lord starts building his tunnels/rooms from one of these entrances, and heroes enter the dungeon from different entrances according to the evil points.
So lords' tunnels/rooms can entangle with each other and their imps may dig golds in others' tunnels. Monsters of Lord A may help a nextdoor monster owned by Lord B. There can also be ways that one lord drives his intruders into other lords' tunnels/rooms. All of these can happen in conditions but I have no idea what they are yet, lol.


juffowup wrote:
Or here's a non-coop version... what if we were all mining into the same pile of dirt, with our own entrance, but we were competing with each other for space inside? With mechanics for taking control of each others' rooms or tunnels, or diverting adventurers from my space into yours?


Do i mean the same thing as yours?


Yeah, something like this, but putting adventurers in different corners of a square makes it seem like we're mining into a tiny planet. What about if we use similar dungeons to the current, but with the left side of mine connected to the right side of the person to my left?

Maybe the dungeon narrows at the bottom and tunnels down there where it's more competitive yield double gold? But every way imagine making monsters or heroes move between players requires major changes to the way combat works, which kind of kills what's great about the game.
 
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Jason Sarnowski
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I like the idea of everyone competing for the same land from different sides, I like to think of it as a mountain of evil.

I've made up variant board that I am eager to try with my family, but it will be a while before I can get four of us together. The idea is that there is a large mountain and each player has their own entrance from different sides.

Normal building rules apply, except that you can only build in your color, a shared color, or the center white area, and you can place a room adjacent to another players room. When you build you would need to place a small colored token on your dungeon tile so that you can see which tiles belong to you, adventurers would not travel between different players tiles, so combat rules would not change.

I have outlined the new areas where production rooms can be played. Any rooms placed in the white section are worth twice the normal amount. Production rooms would make twice the goods, and rooms from year 2 would grant extra attack or bonus to the final score. As a downside any room placed in the white area costs an additional 1 evil to purchase, and 1 evil on tax day. This is to represent the virgin sacrifice you have to make in order to increase the rooms effect.

Thoughts?

 
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B C Z
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My immediate reaction to this is "What stops yellow and red from encroaching on blue's territory in order to make their lives more difficult?"
 
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Noble Knave
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Tefs wrote:
I like the idea of everyone competing for the same land from different sides, I like to think of it as a mountain of evil.

I've made up variant board that I am eager to try with my family, but it will be a while before I can get four of us together. The idea is that there is a large mountain and each player has their own entrance from different sides.

Normal building rules apply, except that you can only build in your color, a shared color, or the center white area, and you can place a room adjacent to another players room. When you build you would need to place a small colored token on your dungeon tile so that you can see which tiles belong to you, adventurers would not travel between different players tiles, so combat rules would not change.

I have outlined the new areas where production rooms can be played. Any rooms placed in the white section are worth twice the normal amount. Production rooms would make twice the goods, and rooms from year 2 would grant extra attack or bonus to the final score. As a downside any room placed in the white area costs an additional 1 evil to purchase, and 1 evil on tax day. This is to represent the virgin sacrifice you have to make in order to increase the rooms effect.

Thoughts?



Very clever, and I like the competition over the central space. Since my dungeon rarely exceeds the solid colored portion of your map in a normal game, I don't think my neighbors encroaching in that space would make a big difference to me personally, but it could lead to some interesting interactions. I don't really see any incentive to go into the border regions between neighbors, but plenty for the bonuses in the center.
 
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Jason Sarnowski
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byronczimmer wrote:
My immediate reaction to this is "What stops yellow and red from encroaching on blue's territory in order to make their lives more difficult?"


I actually like the idea of making my brothers life more difficult I do understand what you are saying though, my original map was smaller and I felt like some people might find it too competitive. I'll attach the original so that you can see what I mean.

thenobleknave wrote:
I don't really see any incentive to go into the border regions between neighbors, but plenty for the bonuses in the center.


I think you would actually prefer my original map, there is much less space with only a single color. Maybe there needs to be some additional downside to the center portion to make it more of a gamble?

 
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Noble Knave
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Tefs wrote:
thenobleknave wrote:
I don't really see any incentive to go into the border regions between neighbors, but plenty for the bonuses in the center.


I think you would actually prefer my original map, there is much less space with only a single color. Maybe there needs to be some additional downside to the center portion to make it more of a gamble?



Oooh, that I do like! It could be very cutthroat, and would definitely change the valuation of early tunneling.

It seems like the easy thing to balance the center portion would be to give double benefits to the owner, but everyone else can use it normally. So if put my Workshop there, 4 Imps gives me 2 traps, but everyone else can use it 4 Imps for 1 trap as normal (and double production is available in Year 2). Bonus point rooms work the same way (points x2 for owner, x1 for everyone else), and I'd just say combat rooms give no bonus down there. Doing this, I'd remove the extra evil cost, since letting your opponents use it should be balancing enough (but playtesting will reveal this for sure).

Will the rule forbidding adjacent rooms also apply to opponent's rooms? I think it should, but that will make it even more cutthroat devil
 
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Jason Sarnowski
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thenobleknave wrote:
It seems like the easy thing to balance the center portion would be to give double benefits to the owner, but everyone else can use it normally.


That's an interesting idea, would the other player need to connect to the room with a tunnel?

thenobleknave wrote:
Doing this, I'd remove the extra evil cost, since letting your opponents use it should be balancing enough (but playtesting will reveal this for sure).


Thematically I really like the idea of paying somehow with evil, I have this image in my head of mining to the center of the mountain and there is some ancient evil there that helps you if you sacrifice to them.

How about this

You can use the room as normal by paying producing costs
You can use the room as double by paying producing costs and 1 evil
Other players can use the room as normal by paying producing costs and 1 evil.
Scoring rooms would be double for you and regular for everyone else

thenobleknave wrote:
Will the rule forbidding adjacent rooms also apply to opponent's rooms? I think it should, but that will make it even more cutthroat devil


evil!
 
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Noble Knave
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Tefs wrote:
thenobleknave wrote:
It seems like the easy thing to balance the center portion would be to give double benefits to the owner, but everyone else can use it normally.


That's an interesting idea, would the other player need to connect to the room with a tunnel?


I would argue against it, because then someone could easily tunnel the central areas first and lock down the entire center with little chance for others to compete against him.

Maybe have it so that additionally players can use non-white area rooms of other players that they tunnel into, at the cost of 1 evil plus production quantities?

Quote:
thenobleknave wrote:
Doing this, I'd remove the extra evil cost, since letting your opponents use it should be balancing enough (but playtesting will reveal this for sure).


Thematically I really like the idea of paying somehow with evil, I have this image in my head of mining to the center of the mountain and there is some ancient evil there that helps you if you sacrifice to them.

How about this

You can use the room as normal by paying producing costs
You can use the room as double by paying producing costs and 1 evil
Other players can use the room as normal by paying producing costs and 1 evil.
Scoring rooms would be double for you and regular for everyone else


I like it! That will likely balance it a bit more without being excessive (and a good way to get extra evil devil). Interestingly, the Magic Room and Printing Press could never go in the central area, but Workshop could be used as an easy way to dig like crazy and get extra evil if you need it.

Quote:
thenobleknave wrote:
Will the rule forbidding adjacent rooms also apply to opponent's rooms? I think it should, but that will make it even more cutthroat devil


evil!


Oh yeah! Also should probably enforce the 2x2 rule about tunneling, although playtesting may reveal that it should not apply to opponents' tunnels.
 
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Noble Knave
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Also, my current Play by Forum is ending, I'd be very interested in playtesting this via PBF if we have enough guinea pigs. Looks like fun!
 
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Noble Knave
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Might I suggest changing the Perimeter and Central formats so that the Central gets the corners of the white area rather than the Perimeter? That way it preserves the total number of spaces available for each region... of course in the original game there are far fewer spaces available for Central (6 versus 14 for Central versus Perimeter).
 
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Jason Sarnowski
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I could do that in order to make the perimeter rooms harder to place, but I don't know if that is necessary. With the 2x2 rule I think it may already be difficult for multiple players to place rooms in the center. The only benefit would be that a player could place the printing press and magic room in the center, and the printing press would be a waste.

I'm going to be working on a printable board in next few weeks, I really appreciate the input!
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Michal Švagerka
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I like the idea of shared area for digging a lot.

But for me, it is just still too big. I mean, You can easily build 8 tunnels/rooms in the area of Your color. I do not think I have ever needed more. Even if You get really unlucky and got 3 conquered tiles in the first year, one of them will certainly be a room, so even on 4 rooms you still have 3 tunnels to dig.

I think that the area should be contended more for. With the current setup it is very unlikely that someone will get blocked from both sides and won't have space to build. My suggestion is to make it even smaller and allow building in the center area only in Year 2. This way, the contest for space will be present in both years.
 
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Michal Švagerka
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Starting positions colored, dark and light grey are top vs. bottom resp. center vs. perimeter. White is buildable in Year 2.



What do You guys think?
 
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Noble Knave
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stinny wrote:
Starting positions colored, dark and light grey are top vs. bottom resp. center vs. perimeter. White is buildable in Year 2.



What do You guys think?


It'd be cozy.

The inner/outer and upper/lower dynamic for your dungeon is somewhat irrelevant if they can't build in white areas until year 2. I like the shape of Tefs' better, but I'm with you on never needing to go outside your own corner if you don't want to. Why not just shrink his setup by one radius, or something along those lines?
 
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Jason Sarnowski
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I was working on it during lunch. I am trying to design the folding board so that you can easily change the number of players without changing the experience or making the game unfair for anyone.

I made it smaller, but I don't know how much smaller I can go without becoming silly.

Another possibility to cramp the space;

When you build a tunnel you roll as D6, on a roll of 1-5 you build as normal, on a roll of 6 you place a Boulder token showing that noone can build in that space because the rock is too hard. When this happens the player would choose a new space and repeat as needed.

I think that could increase the cramped feeling of the area.
 
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