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Hansa Teutonica» Forums » Strategy

Subject: 2P without variant, strategy question rss

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Hello all,

I never intended to play with the two player variant, because based on what I have read on this forum and my own reasoning, it would seem that once a player gets to 3 actions, he can then block the second player from ever getting to 3 actions.

So, trying to play with two players without the variant seems like it would work fine, and a few people on this forum have stated they enjoy playing the game that way. However, I seem to be running into the same problem as I would if I were playing with the pawn/guards, which is that the first player to get to 3 actions appears to be able to block the other player from getting more actions.

I have been trying to work this out alone and not with another player, because I don't want to bore one of my friends with the two player game if it is broken, but I can't seem to find a way around it.

So my question is, playing two players with normal rules, what can you do to counter the player with 3 actions? I would truly appreciate any insight others may have regarding this, because I can't seem to come up with a solution.


Thank you.
 
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Erratik wrote:
Hello all,

I never intended to play with the two player variant, because based on what I have read on this forum and my own reasoning, it would seem that once a player gets to 3 actions, he can then block the second player from ever getting to 3 actions.

So, trying to play with two players without the variant seems like it would work fine, and a few people on this forum have stated they enjoy playing the game that way. However, I seem to be running into the same problem as I would if I were playing with the pawn/guards, which is that the first player to get to 3 actions appears to be able to block the other player from getting more actions.

I have been trying to work this out alone and not with another player, because I don't want to bore one of my friends with the two player game if it is broken, but I can't seem to find a way around it.

So my question is, playing two players with normal rules, what can you do to counter the player with 3 actions? I would truly appreciate any insight others may have regarding this, because I can't seem to come up with a solution.

Thank you.

You can't really counter it. Once they have 3 actions to your 2, they can block any move you're trying to make.

The only response is to use the Remove 3 bonus token to allow you to get access to the action track.

The simplest solution that I can think of to address this is Morgan's suggestion to just start everyone at 3 actions. Just pretend the first 2 on the Escritoire is really a 3.
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Even with the remove 3 bonus marker, I am not sure how that works. Lets say my opponent is completely occupying the route to Gottingen, so I use my BM to remove all three cubes. Then, lets assume I had at least two cubes on other routes, so I can use the move action to get both of them onto the Gottingen route, plus my second action to place a third cube there. What is stopping my opponent from displacing at least two of my cubes on his turn? Since he has three actions, he can use one to refill, and two to displace my cubes.

I understand that I am new at this, I just don't see how to counter it even with the bonus marker.

As an aside, why is this game even rated for two players? If the first player to get to 3 actions wins no matter if you are using the variant or the normal rules, then the game really isn't playable with two. It isn't a deal breaker for me, because most of the time we are at least three people, but I still feel somewhat cheated.
 
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Erratik wrote:
Even with the remove 3 bonus marker, I am not sure how that works. Lets say my opponent is completely occupying the route to Gottingen, so I use my BM to remove all three cubes. Then, lets assume I had at least two cubes on other routes, so I can use the move action to get both of them onto the Gottingen route, plus my second action to place a third cube there. What is stopping my opponent from displacing at least two of my cubes on his turn? Since he has three actions, he can use one to refill, and two to displace my cubes.

I understand that I am new at this, I just don't see how to counter it even with the bonus marker.

As an aside, why is this game even rated for two players? If the first player to get to 3 actions wins no matter if you are using the variant or the normal rules, then the game really isn't playable with two. It isn't a deal breaker for me, because most of the time we are at least three people, but I still feel somewhat cheated.


If your opponent is blocking the extra actions, build up your cube-movement ability and maybe your replenish ability. Hunt out that remove 3 bonus marker, and when you have it, remove your opponent's cubes, move 3 of your own cubes to the route, and claim it.

When we play 2 player, we usually dispense with the pawn movement rules and just play regular rules. We've found that there is still a lot of competition over the various bonus routes and other key network points. Also, we have found that players that focus too much on one bonus element (i.e., maximum actions) often do not win, because they ignore other important scoring elements that the other player(s) capitalize on.

Or, as suggested, you could just start both players off with the first cube in the action track removed, so both players start at 3.
 
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mrblueesq wrote:

If your opponent is blocking the extra actions, build up your cube-movement ability and maybe your replenish ability. Hunt out that remove 3 bonus marker, and when you have it, remove your opponent's cubes, move 3 of your own cubes to the route, and claim it.

When we play 2 player, we usually dispense with the pawn movement rules and just play regular rules. We've found that there is still a lot of competition over the various bonus routes and other key network points. Also, we have found that players that focus too much on one bonus element (i.e., maximum actions) often do not win, because they ignore other important scoring elements that the other player(s) capitalize on.

Or, as suggested, you could just start both players off with the first cube in the action track removed, so both players start at 3.


I get what you are saying, but you must admit that you need quite a bit to be able to get the third action once your opponent has it. I would be very curious to know your win/loss percentage in two player games, based on which player got to three actions first.

I sincerely hope that my initial assessment was incorrect, and that HT can still be tense and strategic with only two players.
 
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You may be interested in this thread:
Win with only 2 actions? Challenge accepted!
 
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mrblueesq wrote:
You may be interested in this thread:
Win with only 2 actions? Challenge accepted!


Yeah, I have read that before. Since it was in a five player game, it doesn't really answer any of my concerns. In a five player game, you can't concentrate on denying one player his third action, because you will fall behind the others. It is a different ballgame when you are playing with only two.
 
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Just wanted to post an update.

After playing out the early two player game solo(playing both sides), as well as playing a few actual two player games versus my friend, I can say that the two player game without the variant is not broken at all.

The key is the R3(Remove 3 trader/merchant) bonus marker. If your opponent goes first and places two traders on the action route, you simply place your merchant on the remaining space, then place one trader on the route with the R3 marker. Your opponent can displace you for the third action, but then that ends with you getting the R3 marker, which will let you get your own third action in a few turns time. The alternative is for him to try to get the marker himself, but then that leaves the action route vulnerable.

So basically, it works fine without the variant, since you will both get to three actions fairly early. Now, you could still choose to start with the third action unlocked if you wish, but I don't think it is necessary at all.

The only downside? I got absolutely trashed all three games.
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