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World in Flames» Forums » Rules

Subject: Submarines and search rolls rss

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Adam Thorp
Sweden
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You can only have a submarine combat if there are convoy points included on one side and submarines on the other (section 11.5.7 in the rules). However, since CPs are always placed in the 0 section of the seabox, the only way for them to be included is if the side using CPs fail their search roll while the side using subs do not. The submarine player must then choose to include units in the 0 box.

So, submarines can only hunt for convoys if either the other side fails its search roll completely or if the search number for the convoys are somehow modified (NAVs or CPs or the submarine player has convoys in the area as well). Have I understood this correctly? Submarines can only do what they do best if they succeed on their search roll and the other side fails completely, otherwise it will most likely be a naval air or surface combat?
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Torsten Hasforth
Denmark
Copenhagen
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Yes.
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Rober Khan
Spain
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It's a touchy way of fighting, yes. Spreading SUB fleets trhough ill-defended sea areas seems a good strategy to me. You maximise chances of finding CPs, as you will be rolling a lot of dices, and you wont recieve much damage when you get caught (unless you roll really high). Of course, paranoid CW players will defend every damned piece of sea. In doing so, however, they will be spending three o four oil points per turn.
You can also try to group SUBs and NAVs, but I'm not sure if this is wasting NAVs.
 
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Jesper Noget
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Copenhagen
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Thats why ppl put some fast SCS in the 4 seabox, to deter submarines. So some ASW factors in the 0 with the CPs and then some surface factors in the 4 seabox. If the CP owner finds with the 4 seabox, it can turn nasty for the subs, if only the submarines finds, then the ASW factors comes into play.

Historically a lot of the convoy SCS, like corvettes, frigates, and destroyer escorts, were not fast enough to catch surfaced submarines (or it took them to long time to be worth the effort). So the placement of ASW in the 0 box seems WiF logical.
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Kevin Bernatz
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
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dursten wrote:
Yes.


No. This is not correct. If you have 4 surprise points as the SUB controlling player (or, really, ANY player), you can choose SUB combat (see 11.5.7, bullet 1: "You can choose the combat type if you spend 4 surprise points. You can even choose a combat type not normally allowed (e.g. SUB combat even if no enemy convoy points are included);") See also 11.5.10, which also specifically references this situation.

What this does is result in the SUBs attacking /0/ ships (since even though SUB combat was choosen with no CP's involved, you still resolve SUB combat in the same manner). So why would anyone do this?

Well, consider a situation where you might have a juicy target in an enemy stack w/o CP's. Lets assume they do have air cover (maybe the target is a CV?), so the SUB player would have to spend 4 surprise points to avoid the air combat (if they spent none, the air would attack the sub and the sub could not hurt the air). The sub COULD pick Surface combat, but then the sub likely will be on a lower attack column...and the escorts would likely have a significant gunnery advantage. If you end up with a large number of surprise points, you might be able to choose combat type (SUB) and then spend 3 surprise points to pick the target. All you need is 11 Sub factors to get an X result...admittedly you need a bunch of surprise points (7...4 to pick combat, 3 to pick target), but a 1-10 split or an attack during a surprise impulse can generate those ranges.

-K
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