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A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Cards that fail to deliver rss

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Andras Klein
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This is only a minor gripe with the game, but am I the only one who finds that the Winter is Coming Westeros card is quite a disapoointment compared to the awesome artwork of the card, and it's significance for the whole series? I mean, it's only effect is to reshuffle the card deck, but that's only to make predicting the upcoming Wersteros Cards a bit harder. (you can rely on counting cards before you draw this, but you have to start again after that) It's not a completely irrelevant effect, but this should be something much, much more significant. (it doesn't even advance the Wildlings, c'mon)

One of the other cards that fail to deliver is Melisandre. In the books and in the series, she is a wild card who can make all your careful planning and strategic advantage go to waste, it doesn't make any sense for her so simply have a strength of 1 and a sword, that's kind of the least exciting combination that's possible in the game. (Patchface's ability would have been quite fitting for her, so this cannot even be justified by balancing purposes)

Some cards are spot-on though, Roose's ability is very fitting for his character, and I really like how Davos's ability is connencted to Stannis.
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Seli L
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kla622 wrote:
This is only a minor gripe with the game, but am I the only one who finds that the Winter is Coming Westeros card is quite a disapoointment compared to the awesome artwork of the card, and it's significance for the whole series? I mean, it's only effect is to reshuffle the card deck, but that's only to make predicting the upcoming Wersteros Cards a bit harder. (you can rely on counting cards before you draw this, but you have to start again after that) It's not a completely irrelevant effect, but this should be something much, much more significant. (it doesn't even advance the Wildlings, c'mon)


What the card does is occassional games when there is not mustering, no clash, no whatever for even more than half of the game. That's hardly insignificant. Besides, it's a game.

kla622 wrote:
One of the other cards that fail to deliver is Melisandre. In the books and in the series, she is a wild card who can make all your careful planning and strategic advantage go to waste, it doesn't make any sense for her so simply have a strength of 1 and a sword, that's kind of the least exciting combination that's possible in the game.


Well, yeah, there are some cards in the game that can make all careful planning and stragegic planning go waste, and I mostly hate those cards (Doran, Queen of Thorns, Balon, Damphair). But if you want a card that seriously fails to deliver, have a closer look at the useless card that Tyrion is. Melisandre is a perfectly nice card compared to that.
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Steven
Netherlands
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Maybe Winter is Coming will be a disapointment in the series as well, when it turns out winter lasts only 3 years and the others turn out to be mostly extinct.

I completely agree with the Mellisandre-Patchface switch. That would make much more sense, being a remove-enemy-leader-card.

Tyrions role could have been more connected to the kings court, as that's his specialty, but I find him fine otherwise. He knows nothing of battle but can sweettalk his way out of trouble. His ability turned out to be instrumental to one of my victories (stalling a Baratheon card redraw) so I have a softspot for him. cool
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Kokken Tor
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I wanted to house rule a wildling symbol om the 'Winter is coming' cards to increase the frequency of attacks, but haven't tried it yet. If you do, let me know how it worked!

Yes Melisandre sucks, but I think Tyrion is kind of ok. Quite a niche character: Opportunisticly attacking neighbours with only one house cards left using an equally strong force to guarantee the win.
 
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Lord_Ntanos Karkavilas
Greece
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Tyrion is OK. If you play him right, you can gain a +1 bonus on the battle at hand and stall your opponent from getting his hand back.

The WORST card is Cersei....It has "if you win...." clause and it's value is 0. By far the worst 0 card in the game. Add to this that Tywin is the worst "4" card (also with an "if you win" clause) and you have yourself a crippled unfair deck for poor Lannister.

I mean that every 0 card does something awesome (Doran, Queen of Thorns, Patchface) or something good (Catelyn can be a +1/+2 card and Aeron can give you the chance to meassure the battle, let alone get your hand faster returned to you).

Every other "4" card has Casualties (Stark (2), Martell(2) and Greyjoy(1)), INTSANT kill (Tyrell) or can be played as a "5" (Baratheon). Tywin gets 2 Power "IF" he wins.

These fail to deliver, in my opinion.

 
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J C
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Perhaps but you have to balance that against Gregor Clegane. Three swords on the card means definite casaulties on the other side and the chance to wipe out most armies.

Pretty much every deck has a decent balance of cards with their own stengths and weaknesses. Personally, having played mostly as Baretheon, I can't stand Saladoor Saan. It's a big bonus in the right circumstances but too often the circumstances just aren't there and he seems to end up being my last choice.

Everyone is going to have a preference for a deck and I have to admit I think Lannister's get a potentially tougher starting posistion crammed in with pretty much everyone a potential direct threat either straight away or within a couple of turns.
 
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David Schallert
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Bloomington
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See, I still think Tyrion is pretty crappy. Watching the series the other day I thought it might be a good power for him to allow any adjacent land forces to support a sea battle.
 
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Seli L
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ntanos wrote:
Tyrion is OK. If you play him right, you can gain a +1 bonus on the battle at hand and stall your opponent from getting his hand back.


Too bad by the time there's an opponent with just one card on the hand many things have been already decided.

ntanos wrote:

The WORST card is Cersei....It has "if you win...." clause and it's value is 0. By far the worst 0 card in the game.


The reason why Cersei is weak is because it's an unmodified card from the first edition. Given the inflation as the game progressed (hyper-inflation in the case of the second edition, probably), it's no wonder Cersei feels useless. For example, Asha Greyjoy had a similar ability in the first edition like Queen of Thorns has now, but it worked only after the battle and only if Asha won (she had 2 combat strength, but still).
 
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Lord_Ntanos Karkavilas
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http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/802635/are-some-of-the-house...

Check my post on this thread. I do not think that you will disagree with my ratings on the decks. Clegane is Naturally a very strong card, yet not the Strongest 3 in the game... Lannister is saved by the bell (actually the 2 "1s" he carries.....
 
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roftie
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Tyrion is not the greatest card in the game, but he is far from useless. Tyrion for me is a defensive card, played when you cannot guarantee victory with one of your higher cards. Consider the case of your opponent playing the lowest card necessary to guarantee victory for him/her (not an uncommen situation at all). When you play Tyrion, you force your opponent to use a higher card than what he/she wanted to, thereby wasting a better card to gain the same result. If your opponent does not have higher cards available, he/she has to choose a lower card, which could lead to defeat for him/her.

The fact that someone with one card left can't play that card against Tyrion is not the purpose of the card, it is just an added bonus.

I agree that Cersei is the weakest 0 card in the game. For her special ability to come into play, you would need a considerable number advantage in terms of troops and the opponent's hand would probably need to be depleted too. I think a better fit for her would have been the ability she had in ASOS: "Your opponent loses two Power Tokens at the end of the battle." It would always kick in, win or lose, and one would hate having faced her, which is kinda true to her character.
 
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J C
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Well having a look at your ratings I'd disagree with you on certain cards. Salladhor Saan is not worth 3 points for me. His special ability is good in the right circumstances but you have to wait for those circumstances and he tends to end up as the last card in my hand quite a lot. Also given that you want to stay high up the iron throne track and as Baratheon you start there Stannis' special +1, whilst good, wouldn't make him my second choice maybe 3rd or even 4th. At least with Tywin his special is always going to happen if you win. I've gone a whole game where Stannis' special did nothing.

Picking out individual cards also isn't a great way to pick the best deck as a lot of it is about balance. As I said my main experience is with Baretheon where a lack of forts can hit you hard if you lose a battle plus a lack of swords on the higher cards means you can become reliant on attacking routed troops to kill people off or only doing damage on attacks you know you can win. However individually there are some nice cards there.

Starks on the other hand have army killing cards high up and some good low ranking cards to act as a balance. Similarly Tryell's high value cards can be devestating. Lannister carries some very nice mid-range cards but yeah Cersei is possibly the worst card in the game.

 
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Eighty the 80th
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Cersei is probably my least favourite lannister card. tyrion won me the game last time i played!

if you know his cards (and you should) and he NEEDS to play his 3 str card to even tie with you, here comes tyrion forcing that back into his hand and.. victory for the lannisters (first time playing them too! )

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Lord_Ntanos Karkavilas
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I never said I did the whole "rating" right. Just an attempt. For Example Balon is the Best card, but if you play him against Catelyn ( let us assume a +2 def) or against Kevan, than he is wasted. Arianne is there to stop Loras, but what if you play her against something else. Mace Tyrell destroys a footman, but what if your opponent never lets you get your hands on one. Clegane has 3 swords....I'd be a very dissapointed Lannister using Clegane against the Blackfish...

It's all about prediction. And how lucky you feel...
You know your opponent's hand and you try to guess the way he is going to use it, but he knows that you know it and you know that he knows that you know it and so on...
 
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J C
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True enough. I'd say personally my favourite deck is Martell. 4,3 and 2s are basic and a lot of swords in there. The lower half of the deck has some nice specials in there and Arianne can frustrate an opponent not just halt Loras. They also have arguably the best 0 card in game that, even if you don't get to use it, dissuades people from attacking you. There's another chat on here about making up the best mix from all the decks and the general consensus is Martell get 3 of the 7.

Greyjoy also get a decent hand and Balon is in the running for best card in the game and certainly the best level 2.
 
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Seli L
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ntanos wrote:
I never said I did the whole "rating" right. Just an attempt. For Example Balon is the Best card, but if you play him against Catelyn ( let us assume a +2 def) or against Kevan, than he is wasted. Arianne is there to stop Loras, but what if you play her against something else. Mace Tyrell destroys a footman, but what if your opponent never lets you get your hands on one. Clegane has 3 swords....I'd be a very dissapointed Lannister using Clegane against the Blackfish...

It's all about prediction.


Yes, it is about prediction. For example, at the beginning of the game, if you are 3 stronger than Greyjoy, I can easily predict that he can still attack and defeat you no matter what you play. It's a very simple prediction really and it's not the only case when Lannister gets the noticeably shorter end of the stick.
 
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Heinrich Keller
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True, but he can only do that once, and only without incurring any casualties from you. Good long term play also consists of forcing your opponent to spend his good cards in irrelevant conflicts.
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Lord_Ntanos Karkavilas
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Seli_L wrote:
ntanos wrote:
I never said I did the whole "rating" right. Just an attempt. For Example Balon is the Best card, but if you play him against Catelyn ( let us assume a +2 def) or against Kevan, than he is wasted. Arianne is there to stop Loras, but what if you play her against something else. Mace Tyrell destroys a footman, but what if your opponent never lets you get your hands on one. Clegane has 3 swords....I'd be a very dissapointed Lannister using Clegane against the Blackfish...

It's all about prediction.


Yes, it is about prediction. For example, at the beginning of the game, if you are 3 stronger than Greyjoy, I can easily predict that he can still attack and defeat you no matter what you play. It's a very simple prediction really and it's not the only case when Lannister gets the noticeably shorter end of the stick.


Is that a hint of irony I am witnessing here?

You cannot take one situation and make it the canon... Yes, Greyjoy can take you using Balon and the sword, while at the same time Lannister uses let's say Cersei, since he predicted Balon was coming and he'd get a 0 after all.
Now let us see... Greyjoy used his greatest leverage to nulify...Oh Mother of God...it was a zero value card after all...

To be serious, naturally the existence of Balon, makes Greyjoy get the longer end of the stick against any deck, not just Lannister. But this happens in any case. There are right cards to counter pretty much everyone and everything, but you have to play them when the time is right. And this is not easy. It is not as simplified as the example you gave.
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Seli L
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ntanos wrote:
Seli_L wrote:
Yes, it is about prediction. For example, at the beginning of the game, if you are 3 stronger than Greyjoy, I can easily predict that he can still attack and defeat you no matter what you play. It's a very simple prediction really and it's not the only case when Lannister gets the noticeably shorter end of the stick.


Is that a hint of irony I am witnessing here?

You cannot take one situation and make it the canon... Yes, Greyjoy can take you using Balon and the sword, while at the same time Lannister uses let's say Cersei, since he predicted Balon was coming and he'd get a 0 after all.
Now let us see... Greyjoy used his greatest leverage to nulify...Oh Mother of God...it was a zero value card after all...


Which, oh, meant Lannister is without Lannisport, for example. Or it meant Greyjoy didn't use Balon, since he predicted Lannister would use Cersei. And I can take one situation and make it canon, since the situation I'm talking about is Lannister having to focus on defending against Greyjoy. With Greyjoy having Balon and Damphair there's just no way Lannister can successfully strike at Greyjoy first, and if Lannister focuses elsewhere, that's inviting Greyjoy. Lannister's play entirely depends on Greyjoy, to the extent that no other house's does.
 
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Lord_Ntanos Karkavilas
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Seli_L wrote:
ntanos wrote:
Seli_L wrote:
Yes, it is about prediction. For example, at the beginning of the game, if you are 3 stronger than Greyjoy, I can easily predict that he can still attack and defeat you no matter what you play. It's a very simple prediction really and it's not the only case when Lannister gets the noticeably shorter end of the stick.


Is that a hint of irony I am witnessing here?

You cannot take one situation and make it the canon... Yes, Greyjoy can take you using Balon and the sword, while at the same time Lannister uses let's say Cersei, since he predicted Balon was coming and he'd get a 0 after all.
Now let us see... Greyjoy used his greatest leverage to nulify...Oh Mother of God...it was a zero value card after all...


Which, oh, meant Lannister is without Lannisport, for example. Or it meant Greyjoy didn't use Balon, since he predicted Lannister would use Cersei. And I can take one situation and make it canon, since the situation I'm talking about is Lannister having to focus on defending against Greyjoy. With Greyjoy having Balon and Damphair there's just no way Lannister can successfully strike at Greyjoy first, and if Lannister focuses elsewhere, that's inviting Greyjoy. Lannister's play entirely depends on Greyjoy, to the extent that no other house's does.


You used the word "predicted"...just proved my point!!! (Now that's just trolling)

Now seriously I agree that Greyjoy can mess around with Lannister in many ways on turn 1.
BUT, a Lannister that has done his homework can really answer and mess with Greyjoy on turn 2 and eventually in my opinion can hold him off long enough for Stark to climb down the neck and finish him off.

Truth be told Lannister and Greyjoy skirmishing from round 1, cripples both of them and is the worst solution available.

Just for the record, check this post.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/787196/lannister-strategy-to...
I do not agree entirelly with it, but some interesting ideas come up during the discussion that can really spice things up in favour of both parties
 
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Seli L
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ntanos wrote:
You used the word "predicted"...just proved my point!!! (Now that's just trolling)


Too bad that I'm not talking about your point, but my point, and that is that, because of Greyjoy and Lannister cards, Lannister:
- cannot attack Greyjoy
- Greyjoy can reasonably well attack Lannister

Therefore Lannister:
- has to suck up to Greyjoy
- has to focus on Greyjoy, first losing some battles and then striking back

ntanos wrote:

Now seriously I agree that Greyjoy can mess around with Lannister in many ways on turn 1.
BUT, a Lannister that has done his homework can really answer and mess with Greyjoy on turn 2 and eventually in my opinion can hold him off long enough for Stark to climb down the neck and finish him off.


Oh, right, I forgot one of Lannister's options:
- suck up to Stark instead and rely on him coming to the rescue

But whatever.
 
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Lord_Ntanos Karkavilas
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Seli_L wrote:
ntanos wrote:
You used the word "predicted"...just proved my point!!! (Now that's just trolling)


Too bad that I'm not talking about your point, but my point, and that is that, because of Greyjoy and Lannister cards, Lannister:
- cannot attack Greyjoy
- Greyjoy can reasonably well attack Lannister

Therefore Lannister:
- has to suck up to Greyjoy
- has to focus on Greyjoy, first losing some battles and then striking back

ntanos wrote:

Now seriously I agree that Greyjoy can mess around with Lannister in many ways on turn 1.
BUT, a Lannister that has done his homework can really answer and mess with Greyjoy on turn 2 and eventually in my opinion can hold him off long enough for Stark to climb down the neck and finish him off.


Oh, right, I forgot one of Lannister's options:
- suck up to Stark instead and rely on him coming to the rescue

But whatever.



Try to be a bit objective.

To me it seems like you are a man that has never won with Lannister and is a bit bitter about the subject.

I never said they rule and that they are the strongest, but you cannot deny that the can be really dangerous. It is the way you play that matters. And how well you know your enemy. This is always a factor. I have been playing this game with the same group for a long time. I more or less know them as much as they know me by now. Throw me in another group and it is a damn jungle until you realize how your opponents think.

But I have laid waste a few times as Lannister to Greyjoy and I have been thrown out of Pyke as Greyjoy by a very competent Lannister...

So...whatever...as you said.
 
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