Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
5 Posts

Virgin Queen» Forums » Rules

Subject: Holy League questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
John W
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmb
The text of the Holy League card says, "If Ottoman VP is 13+, gain 4 diplomatic influence dividing it as desired between Venice and the Papacy (or the HRE in < 6 player games) and then resolve the diplomatic status of any two of these powers."

Some questions:
1. Isn't this a bit overpowered? Spain/France/HRE could easily play this after the Turks gain some VP, doing some preliminary diplomatic influence placement to make it more of a sure thing.
They could split the influence 2/2, and gain control of 2 keys on the same play. If France hasn't lost any ground from its at-start position, that would be an instant win.

2. What if you don't want to resolve one of the diplomatic statuses? Let's say you're Spain, you still control the Papacy, and the Turks have taken Malta. Can you play Holy League to gain control of Venice without risking losing the Papacy?

3. What if one of the nations has already had its diplomatic status resolved this turn? An example would be if someone gains control of the Papacy with Papal Bull and selects option #4, take Holy League from the discard and play the event. In a 6-player game, Venice would be the only eligible nation for influence. Would you resolve the status of Venice and then resolve the status of the Papacy, with Spain, France and HRE all at +0 for the Papacy?

4. Could the Ottomans play this in a < 6-player game to add 4 influence to the HRE and then resolve their status, most likely deactivating them? A Holy League between the Ottoman Sultan and the Austrian Emperor was not a likely happening in real history.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel K
United States
Minnetrista
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
3. What if one of the nations has already had its diplomatic status resolved this turn?

This is covered in the first paragraph of 24.6--ignore a resolution of diplomatic status if it's already occurred this turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Ferguson
Ireland
Cork
Cork
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
changcheng wrote:
1. Isn't this a bit overpowered?

Ducking out of this one, as with all the "insta-win" threads.

Quote:
2. What if you don't want to resolve one of the diplomatic statuses? Let's say you're Spain, you still control the Papacy, and the Turks have taken Malta. Can you play Holy League to gain control of Venice without risking losing the Papacy?

I see no wording indications of any degree of discretion as to the number of resolutions. Founder's Intent may of course vary. (Again!) It seems a little curious that you get a choice in a 3-5 player game, but not with six, but them's the breaks, it seems...

Quote:
3. What if one of the nations has already had its diplomatic status resolved this turn? An example would be if someone gains control of the Papacy with Papal Bull and selects option #4, take Holy League from the discard and play the event. In a 6-player game, Venice would be the only eligible nation for influence. Would you resolve the status of Venice and then resolve the status of the Papacy, with Spain, France and HRE all at +0 for the Papacy?

Then that power's marker will be on the "resolved this turn" square, so isn't eligible for either influence or resolution. In the above case, you'd resolve Venice, and the other choice would be 'void where prohibited'.

Quote:
4. Could the Ottomans play this in a < 6-player game to add 4 influence to the HRE and then resolve their status, most likely deactivating them? A Holy League between the Ottoman Sultan and the Austrian Emperor was not a likely happening in real history.

As far as I can see that's all the Ottomans can do with the event, at all. Aside from selecting which are to be resolved, which seems to be independent of the destination of the card's influence.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven
United States
Spokane
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
"The mystery of life isn't a problem to solve, but a reality to experience"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
changcheng wrote:
1. Isn't this a bit overpowered? Spain/France/HRE could easily play this after the Turks gain some VP, doing some preliminary diplomatic influence placement to make it more of a sure thing.
They could split the influence 2/2, and gain control of 2 keys on the same play. If France hasn't lost any ground from its at-start position, that would be an instant win.


It is possible for this to happen early, but very unlikely due to the new piracy rules. You have to try to award everything before you can award the same thing twice.

So the Ottomans would have to do a lot of piracy early in order to pull this off, which is difficult due to the cap on three piracy attempts per turn and the Spanish fleet sitting in Messina. The Spanish really want to get galley's up ASAP or they risk losing cards as well as giving the Ottomans a trickle of VPs.

France could play this during the first turn, but the Ottomans have a chance to cancel it with their Home Card, Grand Vizier (they start with both).

On top of that, assuming the Ottomans get the VPs necessary to allow this card to be played and assuming the French could even win (the Spanish start with some influence already on these factions)... the Protestants are going to be rebelling keys away quickly and fickle Scotland is likely to turn from you. Plus the Ottomans could always prevent the card from being played if they needed to.

This has also already been discussed at length in some other threads, specifically in this thread.

Quote:
2. What if you don't want to resolve one of the diplomatic statuses? Let's say you're Spain, you still control the Papacy, and the Turks have taken Malta. Can you play Holy League to gain control of Venice without risking losing the Papacy?


No, you would have to resolve the diplomatic status of both factions, unless one was already resolved this turn.

Quote:
3. What if one of the nations has already had its diplomatic status resolved this turn? An example would be if someone gains control of the Papacy with Papal Bull and selects option #4, take Holy League from the discard and play the event. In a 6-player game, Venice would be the only eligible nation for influence. Would you resolve the status of Venice and then resolve the status of the Papacy, with Spain, France and HRE all at +0 for the Papacy?


Already answered by others, but once the diplomatic status is resolved once in a turn. It cannot be resolved again until the next turn.

Quote:
4. Could the Ottomans play this in a < 6-player game to add 4 influence to the HRE and then resolve their status, most likely deactivating them? A Holy League between the Ottoman Sultan and the Austrian Emperor was not a likely happening in real history.


I would imagine it is more the opposite of a Holy League! The Venetians or the HRE have decided they do not want to form a grand alliance with the Turk. Pope.

EDIT: Fixed end.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Forster
United States
Pleasant Prairie
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Hey! Institute THIS!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SW_Cygnus wrote:
I would imagine it is more the opposite of a Holy League! The Venetians or the HRE have decided they do not want to form a grand alliance with the Turk.


Unholy League!
zombie zombie goo devil sauron devil goo zombie zombie
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.