Frank Otte
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Rhosgobel: "While Rhosgobel is in the staging area, Wilyador cannot be healed. Travel: Players must complete stage one of this quest before they can travel to Rhosgobel"

There are several game effects which cause progress tokens to be placed on locations which are not active (i.e. still in the staging area). Since this seems not forbidden for "Rhosgobel", is my assumption correct, that you can resolve Rhosgobel without ever traveling to it?

Even more, you can do this already in stage 1 of the quest, since the location only forbids TRAVELLING to Rhosgobel in stage 1, but NOT resolving Rhosgobel in stage 1 by other means?

Even more: Since the healing prohibition of Wilyador is bound to Rhosgobel and NOT to stage 1 of the quest, you can heal Wilyador already in stage 1, if you manage to get rid off Rhosgobel by mentioned means early?

Even more: If you manage to do all this, you can heal Wilyador in stage 1 WITHOUT sacrifice of the healing character (e.g. Glorfindel), because this restriction appears not before stage 2 of the quest?
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Joe Eagle
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As I understand it, you are correct in every respect.
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Steve Shrock
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And not only are you correct, but there are some folks who believe that what you have observed is the key to winning this scenario, and hence build decks around exploring Rhosgobel during stage 1. I'm not in that camp personally, but it is an interesting approach.
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Matt Duckworth
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Interesting indeed. I noticed as well that you can explore Rhosgobel in stage 1, but did not realize the full extent of your observations! That would make a huge difference, not only with Glorfindel but also using Radagast himself to heal, not to mention being able to shuffle Lore of Imladris cards back in with a Will of the West.

However, this sort of thing seems to me just like a glitch the designers missed and probably ought to correct in an upcoming FAQ. I can buy being able to heal Wilyador because you have explored Rhosgobel through agents like NTs, but it makes absolutley no thematic sense why you would only get penalized for healing AFTER visiting Rhosgobel.

This is a challenging scenario that I am currently working on trying to beat myself, but I don't think I can bring myself to exploit this glitch.
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Patrick Brennan
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For the designers, it's about creating situations where interesting and clever play can be taken advantage of. That's part of what makes for replayable scenarios. If they can do it while staying true to theme, super, but sometimes there's a stretch involved which might need some creative role-play to justify the fit to theme. They'd rather do that than have lame scenarios.

Anyway, you can be confident that this "glitch" was fully known and built in so as to make for more options on how to tackle the scenario.
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Pawel Gutowski
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http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/758105/healing-wilyador-in-t...
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/738170/exploring-rhosgobel-u...

This idea comes to many players. However, the strategy has been unreliable so far (especially in solo play). Tracker is too slow, ride to ruin is faster but complicates your deck (add snowbourn scout maybe?) and finally either you play lore Glorfindel, or have Radagast. This means you need to draw a perfect hand, consisting of multiple cards in the right place at the right time. And all you get is 1 "free" healing for 1 per turn while Eagle is dying anyway and while treacheries are wreaking havoc. It is too slow and too unreliable.

However, with new Asfaloth card coming (and Lore Glorfindel), this strategy WILL become vialable. All you have to do is to draw Asfaloth and you are set to a free healing.
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Matt Duckworth
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I wondered how viable that strategy even was. I knew that in a 50 card tournament deck, it would take heavy reliance on a few right cards to hit early on. I refused to try it, as exploiting glitches ruins games.

However, I find it hard to believe the designers knew about this glitch on release. The thematic text on the card basically spells out that "we are travelling to Rhosgobel because this eagle's wounds CANNOT be healed in the wilderness." It seems pretty evident that they just messed up and forgot that A.) they didn't put "immune to player card effects" on Rhosgobel like they did on Carrock or B.) briefly forgot about trackers and scouts. I seriously hope to see this one on an upcoming FAQ.

Honestly, I remember being pissed of about the fact that I couldn't take out Carrock with my Trackers; which for me makes far more thematic sense than Rhosgobel (i.e. the Trackers are able to scout and reveal all of the trolls' hiding and ambush places taking away their advantage).
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Pawel Gutowski
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For most players this is a feature, not a glitch. As Patrick said, this encourages clever play.
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Matt Duckworth
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By glitch, I simply meant that I think the designers have made a mistake. This wouldn't be the first time with this game.

I just can't imagine they would build an entire scenario on an eagle's wounds being so grievous that he has to be brought to Rhosgobel, and yet through a fluke, said eagle can be healed FAR easier before getting there! I'm still holding out hope for a FAQ or card revision.
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Patrick Brennan
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Matt, I can't give you a guarantee because I'm not the designer, but based on the many discussions I've had with Nate on FAQ and game / scenario intentions, I am 100% confident that this scenario was designed this way on purpose and that there'll be no FAQ or revision, especially given it came out 9 months or so (?) ago now. Try and enjoy it for what it is
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ys jo
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mjd83 wrote:
I wondered how viable that strategy even was.


It is very effective with Bilbo and Beravor with Minstrels and Songs.
Third hero can be almost anyone (Eowyn, Glorfindle, Denethor are preferred).

Of course, such deck does not work very well against any other quests.
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Rauli Kettunen
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There is also the West Road Traveller method. Travel to some other location, play WRT to swap Rhosgobel to active location (note, WRT is not travelling). That way you can quest normally and get progress, clearing Rhosgobel.
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Matt Duckworth
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That is an interesting question Rauli. I would think that would be restricted, because wouldn't that still be considered travelling? The card just allows you to do it outside of the travel phase when another location is active. I suppose it depends on the definition of travelling. I would think anytime you make a location in the staging area and active location, you are travelling to it.
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Rauli Kettunen
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It definately isn't travelling (which is a game term that takes place in its own phase). Similarly, you can use WRT in Massing at Osgiliath to have an East Bank location active and swap it with a West Bank location (that players can't travel to until stage 4). It is a swap, perfectly legit to get around travel restrictions on locations (unless they happen to be immune to player card effect, like Carrock is).
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Pawel Gutowski
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Matt, you should really try to think outside the box. Finding clever ways to deal with the enemy is a part of the game and it benefits open minded players.
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No No No Sheep
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i have to go with the concensus here, that this scenario/quest is designed like this and the "remove rhosgobel from staging via card effects" strategy is valid..

though thematically its kinda silly because all those restriction in the quest card are now bypassed just like that and wilyador get healed in stage 1. On second thought, maybe it IS thematic.. running 3 northren tracker in the rhosgobel area should be thematically correct , sending spies/tracker to explore an area.

if this is a designer mistake then that was a blatantly stupid mistake on the designer's part, since it is very very very easy to catch during a play test. the moment i read the scenario set for aJtR, i instantly thought of using northren trackers to finish off rhosgobel location and start healing right away.



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No No No Sheep
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mjd83 wrote:
That is an interesting question Rauli. I would think that would be restricted, because wouldn't that still be considered travelling? The card just allows you to do it outside of the travel phase when another location is active. I suppose it depends on the definition of travelling. I would think anytime you make a location in the staging area and active location, you are travelling to it.


Remember: do not use theme to interpret quests and scenarios.
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Matt Duckworth
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I am surprised that they would commit such a thematically stupid blunder on purpose. Why would travelling to Rhosgobel actually make it harder to heal Wilyador?

Thankfully, I havn't seen stupidity like this in other scenarios, so it appears to be an isolated event. Good thing because a lot of players like me would be alienated from this game if it lost it's thematic connection and just turned into another game with cards, mechanics, and rules like M:TG.

On the plus side, this is a very fun scenario elsewise, and if you are a real LOTR LCG player, you should be able to beat it in the legit way, and have more fun with it that way.
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No No No Sheep
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finishing rhosgobel location in stage 1 using trackers/scout actually pretty thematic.. lets just say the heroes send scouts to inform radagast about wilyador's injury, and then the scout came back bringing some medicine from radagast that allow heroes to heal wilyador..

the heroes dont have to travel to radagast, they use scouts to call radagast to wilyador's location..

still thematic
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Matt Duckworth
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Except healing gets alot costlier once you do get to Rhosgobel. Is Wilyador poisoned at Rhosgobel in this theme?
 
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