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Subject: No strategy? rss

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Michael Mifsud
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I bought this game about a year ago and finally got to play it last night. I bought it because I thought it was similar to BANG! with a better theme (as in one I prefer).

However it seems like there is little strategy in the game, its almost a roll and move game. You must play cards you draw, you have little control of where you will move to and when it was down to two players it all seemed pointless as it took them a while to finally kill each other because the rolls wouldn't sink up.

Am I missing something?
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Dale Moore
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solomani wrote:
I bought this game about a year ago and finally got to play it last night. I bought it because I thought it was similar to BANG! with a better theme (as in one I prefer).

However it seems like there is little strategy in the game, its almost a roll and move game. You must play cards you draw, you have little control of where you will move to and when it was down to two players it all seemed pointless as it took them a while to finally kill each other because the rolls wouldn't sink up.

Am I missing something?


Nope and my gaming group loves it. I think your problem is you feel Bang is deeper. The same thing can happen with bang if the draw of the cards don't line up.

Both are considered party games. The strategy of both games is in figuring out who each other are. And like Bang it rarely comedown to just two. These win conditions of the neutral characters come into play. Why were they all eliminated. How many players did you have.
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Jesse Hickle
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The biggest strategy that comes in is how well you can read your opponents. It's the same as in poker - you can't control the cards you get, but you can control how you use them.
 
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Michael Mifsud
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We had 5 players so 1 neutral. Am I correct in saying that you must play all the cards you draw? You cant have a hand?

I was the neutral and had to reveal myself to save myself (Annie? A character that can heal herself). I may have got that wrong but I thought you have to reveal yourself to use your special ability?
 
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Brian M
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You are right in that Shadow Hunters is not a very deep game; there's a lot of luck in the dice and card draws. It's normally a light game with a lot of threats and taunting and jokes going on as you try to figure out who's on what team. Though, I don't think Bang is much deeper (I'm not a fan of Bang) though.

There are a number of things to consider. For example, when you get a green card, can you learn more than just the card says? If two players have been attacking each other, it's a reasonable bet they are a Shadow and a Hunter. Learning about one of them can tell you about the other.

If you give someone a hermit card and then attack them based on the result, you may be signalling them as to which side you are on. So, let's say I'm a Shadow, and I think I know who the other Shadow is (6 player). I give Green a card, and discover she is a Hunter. I could attack her, but if I do, I tell her I'm a Shadow. So instead I attack someone else. I know I'm not attacking my ally, since I've found my ally already, so I might be attacking another Hunter or one of those pesky neutrals, and I've just implied to Green that I'm a Hunter as well.

There's also the question of which cards you want to draw when you have the choice of where to go and which card to draw. That varies by character and how long the game has been going on (and it might not be what you think!)

Some characters want lots of violence early, others want to play it cool and not start a fight until they know who everyone is.

Then there's those pesky neutrals. You never know who is in the game or what they are up to, which throws an interesting wrench into things.

So, yes, there is a lot going on that leads to actual choices to make, though it may be not all be apparent on a first play. At it's heart however, it does have a lot of randomness to.

Quote:
I may have got that wrong but I thought you have to reveal yourself to use your special ability?

Except for the Unknown, yes, you must reveal to use your special ability. Of course, Allie normally wants to reveal, so that's not a problem for her
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Brian M
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Quote:
We had 5 players so 1 neutral.

Oh...I just saw this. *Wince* Ok, I love Shadow Hunters, but...not with 5. You really need at least 6 so you have at least two neutrals.
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Dale Moore
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solomani wrote:
We had 5 players so 1 neutral. Am I correct in saying that you must play all the cards you draw? You cant have a hand?

I was the neutral and had to reveal myself to save myself (Annie? A character that can heal herself). I may have got that wrong but I thought you have to reveal yourself to use your special ability?


You have to reveal except for Daniel and Unknown. (not sure of expansion characters.)

Correct you do not have a hand. You play all cards immediately. However You did have a choice not to take a card in the first place.

 
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Dale Moore
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
We had 5 players so 1 neutral.

Oh...I just saw this. *Wince* Ok, I love Shadow Hunters, but...not with 5. You really need at least 6 so you have at least two neutrals.


In the rules an official variant is to add one more role card than players. By doing this in a 5 player game you would have 2 of each role. Shuffle them up and pass them out not revealing the unused role. this would help a 5 player game.
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Michael Z
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solomani wrote:
We had 5 players so 1 neutral. Am I correct in saying that you must play all the cards you draw? You cant have a hand?

I was the neutral and had to reveal myself to save myself (Annie? A character that can heal herself). I may have got that wrong but I thought you have to reveal yourself to use your special ability?

SO why did they kill you after you revealed?

No one really wants to kill Allie - except maybe Charles (get an extra body) and Vampire (heals when attacking). Unless you were silly to be attacking others and annoying them.

Allie just wants to live. Wait till one side is winning, then help them pick off the remains of the losers.


Shadow Hunters is similar, and I think superior and deeper too, than Bang - you can attack anyone on the table (providing they are at your location), cards let you identify the others, rather than just getting revenge on people who hit you, and the addition of neutrals with odd win conditions (suicidal Daniel, bloodthirsty Charles, and innocent but mercernary Allie) makes for a bit more complex games. Also the incentive to reveal who you are at the end game to start using your powers is a good addition.

Bang is pretty dreary when down to two as well. And as mentioned before, this is much less likely in Shadow Hunters.
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Michael Z
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Dale-not-Chip wrote:
However You did have a choice not to take a card in the first place.


Really?
Why wouldn't you?
 
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Dale Moore
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I don't know. But since they asked if you had to do what's on the card I wanted them to know you don't have to take it in the first place.


But I always take a card. Love me some black cards.
 
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Michael Mifsud
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zayzayem wrote:

SO why did they kill you after you revealed?



Because it was 1h, 1s and me, the neutral. The hunter landed on my square and wasn't going to attack me but the shadow character talked him into it pointing out that I only had a few hps left and I would win if they killed each other. So he did. The shadow player, who had 5 equipment cards, shortly whacked the hunter. So probably wasn't the best choice for the hunter.

Will crack it out again when we have 6 players. Thanks for the feedback everyone.
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Dale Moore
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solomani wrote:
zayzayem wrote:

SO why did they kill you after you revealed?



Because it was 1h, 1s and me, the neutral. The hunter landed on my square and wasn't going to attack me but the shadow character talked him into it pointing out that I only had a few hps left and I would win if they killed each other. So he did. The shadow player, who had 5 equipment cards, shortly whacked the hunter. So probably wasn't the best choice for the hr.

Will crack it out again when we have 6 players. Thanks for the feedba

ck everyone.

A shadow will always give a hero good advice. In bang if he was a sheriff would he take advice from an outlaw.
 
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Michael Mifsud
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Dale-not-Chip wrote:
solomani wrote:
zayzayem wrote:

SO why did they kill you after you revealed?



Because it was 1h, 1s and me, the neutral. The hunter landed on my square and wasn't going to attack me but the shadow character talked him into it pointing out that I only had a few hps left and I would win if they killed each other. So he did. The shadow player, who had 5 equipment cards, shortly whacked the hunter. So probably wasn't the best choice for the hr.

Will crack it out again when we have 6 players. Thanks for the feedba

ck everyone.

A shadow will always give a hero good advice. In bang if he was a sheriff would he take advice from an outlaw.


Hey, I'm with you! If I was the hunter I would have figured that better for the neutral (cvilian) to win than the shadow (monster). Next time!
 
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Brian M
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Quote:
...talked him into it pointing out that I only had a few hps left and I would win if they killed each other.

But if you killed each other (unlikely, though possible) both of you would win as well. You would both have fulfilled your win condition
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Greg Wilson
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Yeah, of all the neutrals, Allie is no threat because she can't steal a win, only share it with somebody else.
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Timothy 'Peachy' Devery
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While you cannot directly control where you go (exception being Emi's Teleport), moving is the only action that is mandatory in this game. The location on which you land is not required to be activated. People randomly damaging others at the Weird Woods likely will get punched in the face, while those that simply don't use the location's ability are met with smiles.

Why would someone not draw a card when instructed? There are a few scenarios where it isn't beneficial. If you are on your last HP and asked if you want a Black card, you might just kill yourself if you accept. If you are a Shadow that isn't the Unknown, drawing White could out you before you are ready. Maybe you know David is out there and don't want him to walk into an easy win, so you don't draw a card that he might want. Is it common for people to not draw cards? Not at all. But it is part of the overall strategy of a player if they choose to or not.

I'm not saying the game mechanics are that deep. It isn't chess. But there is definite strategy to which actions a player chooses to do on any given turn. They must move, but will they use their space? Do they wish to attack? Do they want to use their abilities? All of this adds to the game, since you want to find out information about others, while they are kept in the dark regarding you, as long as it is beneficial to your cause. The game is more about how the characters dealt will interact within the game (and also around the table, since the players can slyly talk their way out of danger).
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