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Subject: WW II strategic or grand strategic hex and counter game recommendation rss

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Andrew C
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I'm interested in a hex and counter game on WW II that encompasses either just the European theatre (the whole thing) or the entire world. Moderate complexity at most, so no World in Flames, or Totaler Krieg. Also prefer moderate size, one or two maps. Already have and enjoy Barbaossa to Berlin and Europe Engulfed, but would like a hex and counter, non CDG treatment. I have my eye both of GMT's upcoming games, but it appears they may take a while.

Any suggestions?
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Robert Wesley
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ETO &/or PTO
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Steve Arthur
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World War II: European Theater of Operations, 1939-45...it's old but seems to fit your description...often on ebay...pretty sure there's plenty of Geek-powered modifications to mess with too..
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Rob Ryan
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Rise and Decline of the Third Reich or a later edition of the same
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Eric Williams
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Rob Ryan wrote:
Rise and Decline of the Third Reich or a later edition of the same


+1 if WiF is considered a bit big and involved
 
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Sean McCormick
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I think The Supreme Commander will be out in the not-too-distant future, though I confess I'm more interested in Unconditional Surrender. Compass Games has greenlighted The War, which looks to hit your requirements nicely. If you are more invested in light to mid complexity than hex and counter, I would go with Europe Engulfed.

You also might want to take a look at the original Krieg.
 
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Richard Diosi
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Struggle for Europe Series. You'd have to get two games for all of Europe though Brute Force: The War in the West, 1940-1945 plus War Without Mercy
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Wolfgang Kunz
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DocStryder wrote:
Struggle for Europe Series. You'd have to get two games for all of Europe though Brute Force: The War in the West, 1940-1945 plus War Without Mercy

+ The Mediterranean which is needed not only for the Desert war in North Africa but the forth scenario is the Campaign game simulating the battle from 39 to 45.

A very good series I have to admit.
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Rob Ryan wrote:
Rise and Decline of the Third Reich or a later edition of the same


Which edition is the best? I think I have the 2nd and 4th edition rules.
 
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Kent Reuber
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Hitler's War is a grand strategic game with a relatively small map.
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Scott G
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I think you have disqualified the best choice by excluding World in Flames. The fifth edition with only Planes in Flames is not too large (one map for Europe!) nor more complex than most of the other choices folks have suggested.

Hitler's War can be fun but is a bit abstract. I loved Rise and Decline of the Third Reich but never picked it up again after WiF. Struggle for Europe looks promising, but it is more "Europa Lite" than what it sounds like you are looking for. Basic Krieg! World War II in Europe is very accessible and can be a lot of fun. I found Advanced European Theater of Operations very constraining when compared to WiF, and not simpler, but it may fit your request the best. If you want to go really out there, consider Europe Aflame or Blitzkrieg General though those are area based not hex.

One other suggestion I did not see was combining West Front and East Front. These are hex based, a lot of fun with the blocks, and while in no way one map, not too big.

Unfortunately, the definitive game on this just isn't here yet!

Good Luck!
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Martin Gallo
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wryone wrote:
I think you have disqualified the best choice by excluding World in Flames. The fifth edition with only Planes in Flames is not too large (one map for Europe!) nor more complex than most of the other choices folks have suggested.
I found WiF 5 to be not a very good game. Lots of interesting ideas but overwrought in some areas and bereft of development in others. Now, WiF 7/FE is turning out to be a pretty good game (despite the ugly mountains).

wryone wrote:
Hitler's War can be fun but is a bit abstract. I loved Rise and Decline of the Third Reich but never picked it up again after WiF. Struggle for Europe looks promising, but it is more "Europa Lite" than what it sounds like you are looking for. Basic Krieg! World War II in Europe is very accessible and can be a lot of fun. I found Advanced European Theater of Operations very constraining when compared to WiF, and not simpler, but it may fit your request the best. If you want to go really out there, consider Europe Aflame or Blitzkrieg General though those are area based not hex.
I think you meant Europe Engulfed rather than Europe Aflame - Much different game (and a good one also, but not hex based). The Struggle For Europe series is Europa light in that the entire war in Europe can be played out in a lifetime. I found it to be MUCH better than Europa, because it cleaned up a lot of the goofy factor counting. I was sorry the system never will make it to the Pacific.

wryone wrote:
One other suggestion I did not see was combining West Front and East Front. These are hex based, a lot of fun with the blocks, and while in no way one map, not too big.
This game intrigues me, but I have never gotten it to the table. I have played other block games and enjoyed them a lot. I consider Rommel in the Desert to be one of the better games available).

wryone wrote:
Unfortunately, the definitive game on this just isn't here yet!
I agree 100%. I have found that Axis Empires: Totaler Krieg! to be pretty close, though.
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Sean McCormick
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martimer wrote:
I think you meant Europe Engulfed rather than Europe Aflame - Much different game (and a good one also, but not hex based).


Europe Aflame is also an area-based game, and one you can pick up cheaply at this point. Consider it a distant ancestor of EE.
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Martin Gallo
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Whoops, forgot about that one.
 
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Paolo D'Ulisse
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wryone wrote:
I think you have disqualified the best choice by excluding World in Flames. The fifth edition with only Planes in Flames is not too large (one map for Europe!) nor more complex than most of the other choices folks have suggested.


It is exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread... Wif 5th rocks!
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Scott G
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martimer wrote:
I think you meant Europe Engulfed rather than Europe Aflame - Much different game (and a good one also, but not hex based).


Believe it or not I was actually serious about Europe Aflame. I didn't like Europe Aflame too much but the fog of war aspect was interesting, it's one map, but technically does not have counters (it used stand ups). The challenge is he asked for hex and counter. There are some interesting area games and there is West/East Front but it uses blocks not counters.

Thanks for the suggestion of Axis Empires. I had Totaler Krieg! but just didn't enjoy the "delay box" mechanism. Maybe I should give it a second look!
 
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Martin Gallo
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wryone wrote:
martimer wrote:
I think you meant Europe Engulfed rather than Europe Aflame - Much different game (and a good one also, but not hex based).


Believe it or not I was actually serious about Europe Aflame. I didn't like Europe Aflame too much but the fog of war aspect was interesting, it's one map, but technically does not have counters (it used stand ups). The challenge is he asked for hex and counter. There are some interesting area games and there is West/East Front but it uses blocks not counters.

Thanks for the suggestion of Axis Empires. I had Totaler Krieg! but just didn't enjoy the "delay box" mechanism. Maybe I should give it a second look!
Yeah, that delay box bit is tough to handle when you need those units NOW! Interestingly, WiF has a similar issue with its production "spiral" and waiting for units for years.
 
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Paul O'Connor
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Scare up a copy of 3rd edition Third Reich and we'll give it a go, Andrew.
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Robert Carroll
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Check out:

Top 10 Strategic WWII ETO Games

Top 10 Strategic WWII Games
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Warren Bruhn
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Why moderate size? Why only hex & counter? Take a look at Columbia's block game Eurofront II (2006) and tell me that fabulous map doesn't drawn you in!

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/22160/eurofront-...
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Andrew C
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Warren Bruhn wrote:
Why moderate size? Why only hex & counter? Take a look at Columbia's block game Eurofront II (2006) and tell me that fabulous map doesn't drawn you in!

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/22160/eurofront-...


Anything bigger than two maps and my back starts to hurt reaching for the middle. Hex and counter because I already have very good CDG (with point to point) and block (with areas) treatments. I like the granularity of manuveur you get with hexes.
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Mike Hoyt

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Cleitus the Black wrote:
Warren Bruhn wrote:
Why moderate size? Why only hex & counter? Take a look at Columbia's block game Eurofront II (2006) and tell me that fabulous map doesn't drawn you in!

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/22160/eurofront-...


Anything bigger than two maps and my back starts to hurt reaching for the middle. Hex and counter because I already have very good CDG (with point to point) and block (with areas) treatments. I like the granularity of manuveur you get with hexes.


Then you need to take another look at EuroFront II. Europe Engulfed is sort of a simplified EuroFront, if you like Europe Engulfed but want a bit more, inlcuding granulairityof movement, than EuroFront is the game for you.

Granted you'll have to reach for some of those units. Try sit-ups.
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Gotthard Heinrici (prev. Graf Strachwitz)
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Two already mentioned EuroFront II so I won't bother you with it but have a look at these two potential runners up 'for best WW II ETO game'. Both are P500 GMT games:
The Supreme Commander made the cut
Unconditional Surrender! World War 2 in Europe 371 pre-orders

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