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Subject: Do you think are there overpowered heroes? rss

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alexander stark
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I make this question after discuss with my brother after a lot of games with the base game (the only I have). We think there are heroes that let you to win if you buy them (or level up with militia), and you always win if you have more than your opponents, nevermind the rest of the cards.

We think the heroes are: Thyrian, Selurin, Chalice, Dwarf and Outlands, because of their abilities, strenght and power. Any time this heroes appear in a game the story repeats, where all players race to buy this heroes and forget the rest. In the last game, the heroes were Dwarf, Amazon, Redblade and Feayn. The player that only buy Dwarf win with more than 20 points between the second best player. We are boring about the repetitive of these sessions. I think before I think this the game was amazing (maybe because I play usually solitaire and I don't noticed that).

We are thinking about not to included this heroes in the future games and maybe the game will tend to be more fun. I like a game where all cards are equals in value to win, and then each player choose his/her strategy to win.

What do you think about this?

The experience of the game is better if I purchase more expansions?
 
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Will M. Baker
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alexandermagno wrote:
We think the heroes are: Thyrian, Selurin, Chalice, Dwarf and Outlands


I think everyone agrees about Selurin, and quite a few people agree about Outlands, both of which have now been officially depowered: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/808347/thunderstone-prin...

I haven't formed the same opinion about Thyrian, Chalice, or Dwarf. I agree that their Level 3 incarnation is awesome, but also conditional. And ideally every Level 3 hero will be awesome in the right circumstances.

Considering all the expansion heroes, I don't think any subsequent hero has been lumped in with Selurin as breaking the game. Although there are definitely some super strong heroes (I'm thinking of Stoneguard).
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Will M. Baker
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See also:
Heroes from sets 1-3: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/628373/bluetorchs-complete-g...
Heroes from sets 1-4: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/655193/complete-hero-breakdo...

Those two lists are among my favorites of the Thunderstone forums. I'd be interested to see updated lists, considering all 63 heroes.
 
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Jason Birzer
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Yeah, Selurin is so overpowered, Yucata offers an option not to play with them (which is typically the default game type for most Yucata games.)

I'm not sure Thyrian is overpowered. It is nice when you have a ton of weapons come up, but I don't know if that's common enough to have that be game-breaking.
 
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alexander stark
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darquil wrote:
alexandermagno wrote:
We think the heroes are: Thyrian, Selurin, Chalice, Dwarf and Outlands


I think everyone agrees about Selurin, and quite a few people agree about Outlands, both of which have now been officially depowered: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/808347/thunderstone-prin...

I haven't formed the same opinion about Thyrian, Chalice, or Dwarf. I agree that their Level 3 incarnation is awesome, but also conditional. And ideally every Level 3 hero will be awesome in the right circumstances.

Considering all the expansion heroes, I don't think any subsequent hero has been lumped in with Selurin as breaking the game. Although there are definitely some super strong heroes (I'm thinking of Stoneguard).


I don't mention the level 3 of these heroes. I think they are powerful before get the third level, and this is the problem I see. Maybe Chalice isn't overpowered, but Dwarf and Thyrian...shake Dwarf have always 4 attack since level 1 due to the great amount of sharp weapons (more attack in later levels), and Thyrian have great strength for every weapon and 4 attack and 6 attack (with food) in his first and second level.

The print and play version I don't consider official, since AEG don't mention that. I think it's a introduction to the game.

I'll see the two list you mentioned.
 
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Will M. Baker
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alexandermagno wrote:
Dwarf have always 4 attack since level 1 due to the great amount of sharp weapons (more attack in later levels), and Thyrian have great strength for every weapon and 4 attack and 6 attack (with food) in his first and second level.


(Considering only the 6 heroes you don't list as possibly overpowered...)

I think Dwarf and Thyrian are great early game heroes for the reasons you state, that they come out swinging. Dwarf has guaranteed access to daggers; and Thyrian is guaranteed food (though he'll eat his food, and therefore will be less useful than the Dwarf unless he can get more).

Once we reach the midgame, however, and Level 2 heroes are available, Dwarf and Thyrian are not such clear winners. A puny hero like Elf starts to match them in raw fire power (taking Light into consideration), and the Thieves and Clerics step up their game in terms of hindering my opponents or allowing me to draw cards (not counting disease management, which is situational). (I won't stick up for the Archers, who are, in my opinion, mostly inferior.) So even though I might spring for Dwarves and Thyrians early, that doesn't mean they'll be my first choice to level up.

I don't see strength as a consistent boon. Outlands, Dwarf, and Thyrian are the only Level 1 heroes strong enough to equip Flaming Sword unaided; but otherwise all the other Level 1 heroes (except Wizards) may equip all the other weapons. None of the Level 1 heroes may get the Polearm bonus without aid; only Outlands and Thyrian can get the bonus with the help of food, but both of them tend to eat their food. So I'd argue that additional strength is a situational power, most useful against monsters who decrease strength.

alexandermagno wrote:
The print and play version I don't consider official, since AEG don't mention that. I think it's a introduction to the game.


I agree it's meant as an introduction, but to Towers of Ruin, not to Thunderstone (base set). I think this print and play might be the closest we'll get to a reprinting of the original cards. The base game itself has already been reprinted with some corrections (e.g. Spear); I see this print and play as further refinement, for clarity and balance.
 
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All of the powerful heroes are situational, including Selurin, but him less so. That said, I will add Toyrn. When there are decent weapons out there, he's an instant buy. He also gets around that age old dbg obstacle of not having to maintain a proper balance of heroes to weapons.
 
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Doc Corvid
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In my experience Stoneguard is pretty badass. I enjoy using him but once you start levelling up your heroes and have enough weapons to pretty much always equip them, he can just plow through light penalties, diseases etc.

I'm not sure I'd say he is overpowered (I haven't played the three you listed) but I have a higher win ratio with him than with other heroes.
 
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navajas
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"Do you think are there overpowered heroes?"

Yes.
 
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