Ed Bradley
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Thanks, Obama.
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Mac Mcleod
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TSA (Transportation Security Administration) was created by the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, passed by the 107th Congress on November 19, 2001.

I had no idea Obama was finishing his 4th term in office! whistle
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He should have become a mascot out at Six Flags or something. I mean really, think how many kids you can molest without anyone really getting upset. It's Bugs Bunny after all.
 
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Ed Bradley
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Lol :-)
 
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Matt
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The TSA is like a condom no one likes it but you damn sure better have one to be safe.
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pronoblem baalberith
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Perfect!

MY JUNK IS THE BOMB!
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Matt
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Drew1365 wrote:
MaximumPain wrote:
The TSA is like a condom no one likes it but you damn sure better have one to be safe.


Has the TSA ever thwarted an actual terrorist attack? A cursory Googling would suggest that the official answer is "We're not saying if they did or they didn't." (Which suggests that the real answer is "No, not really.")


So are you saying we have no need for airline security? Remember this issue is much bigger then "I hate Obama".
 
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Matt
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bjlillo wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Has the TSA ever thwarted an actual terrorist attack? A cursory Googling would suggest that the official answer is "We're not saying if they did or they didn't." (Which suggests that the real answer is "No, not really.")


Here are their Top 10 Catches of 2011.


Quote:
3) Over 1,200 firearms were discovered at TSA checkpoints across the nation in 2011. Many guns are found loaded with rounds in the chamber. Most passengers simply state they forgot they had a gun in their bag.


I guess bringing loaded firearms onto a commercial aircraft is no big deal eh?
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It's just a ride...
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bjlillo wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Has the TSA ever thwarted an actual terrorist attack? A cursory Googling would suggest that the official answer is "We're not saying if they did or they didn't." (Which suggests that the real answer is "No, not really.")


Here are their Top 10 Catches of 2011.


Yay, we need more security then, just imagine the things they'd find if there was more!

Gotta keep looking for the turrurrists, and to do so, your freedoms have to impinged upon. It's all for the best.
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Matt
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I guess as long as you guys can use it to feel oppressed then its ok... After all life is soooooooooo bad for us these days I just dont know how anyone can take it. OMG someone had to search people before they got on the plane!!!!!! Do you guys freak out in the locker room too? Do you cover your junk in the shower out of embarrassment?
 
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I see you...
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Sounds like he's ready for the TSA. He's had the practice.
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Matt
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Its almost like people don't remember Lockerbie or that little incident we like to call 911.

This is a lose lose argument with this crew anyway. If there are no incidents you say we don't need the TSA. If there were an incident you would all be calling them incompetent.

I wonder if the families of the victims of Pan Am Flight 103 wish there would have been more airport security?

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It's just a ride...
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MaximumPain wrote:
Its almost like people don't remember Lockerbie or that little incident we like to call 911.

This is a lose lose argument with this crew anyway. If there are no incidents you say we don't need the TSA. If there were an incident you would all be calling them incompetent.

I wonder if the families of the victims of Pan Am Flight 103 wish there would have been more airport security?



I remember Lockerbie very well. The plane came down not a million miles from where I lived at that point.

Perhaps if the USA and the UK (there are others, but they are the main culprits) stopped pissing off other nations by bombing and invading them, there wouldn't be as much need for legalised groping at airports.
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Karl Schmit
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I'm surprised two kids is "too many" for the Catholic church.
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MaximumPain wrote:
Its almost like people don't remember Lockerbie or that little incident we like to call 911.

This is a lose lose argument with this crew anyway. If there are no incidents you say we don't need the TSA. If there were an incident you would all be calling them incompetent.

I wonder if the families of the victims of Pan Am Flight 103 wish there would have been more airport security?

I want more security and less 'security theatre'. Let me bring a bottle of water on the plane but not a gun. Use a metal detector rather than groping, etc.
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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MaximumPain wrote:
Its almost like people don't remember Lockerbie or that little incident we like to call 911.


From what little I remember of these vague, obscure incidents you mention, I do remember that there were strikingly few 6 year old children involved (although I do remember that for at least one of those an entire senior center masterminded and carried out the entire operation, but you'll have to fill me in on which one it was).
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Paul W
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sbszine wrote:
I want more security and less 'security theatre'. Let me bring a bottle of water on the plane but not a gun. Use a metal detector rather than groping, etc.


If I could give you multiple thumbs, I would.

I would general classify threats aboard aircraft along the following continuum:

1) Threats which may cause injury/death to 1-2 people

2) Threats which may cause injury/death to several passengers.

3) Threats which can destroy the aircraft.

4) Threats which allow the aircraft to be used as a weapon to be aimed at other targets.

The mission of airport security should be to prevents type 3 and 4 threats.

By far the most important security change post-9/11 was securing the cockpit during flight. This change meant that threats of a type 1 or 2 variety (for example a man bringing a box-cutter aboard a plane and threatening people with it) can no long escalate into threats of type 3 or 4...9/11 would not have been possible had the hijackers been unable to gain access to the cockpit.

Post-9/11, the rules for hijacking have changed...whereas once upon a time the wise thing to do was to cooperate with hijackers until everything was safely resolved, now anyone attempting to gain control of a plane will find themselves fighting off an entire plane full of people.

This game-changer means that the obsession with over-sized toothpaste tubes and pocket knives does nothing to keep us safer, but merely gives the appearance of such. I'm all for real security measures, but by and large the measures taken by the TSA do little or nothing to keep me safe.
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Tobias Strobe
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So if someone is accused of sexual abuse they shouldn't ever be able to get a job?
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Tobias Strobe
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bjlillo wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
So if someone is accused of sexual abuse they shouldn't ever be able to get a job?


Someone who was accused of sexual abuse and had said accusation acted on by an organization known for covering up sexual abuse should not be allowed to get a job involving porno-scanners and patdowns of random people.


So he was accused and let go from his previous employer, but he wasn't actually charged with a crime... and you think the man should probably be assumed to be guilty of something and restricted from employment? Essentially, if the accusation is oogy enough, we might as well assume the guy is guilty and make sure he doesn't see too many dick silhouettes on the "porno-scanner".

Good stuff. I love it when we assume people accused of sex crimes are automatically complete monsters.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Well if it's all Bush's fault, I hope we'll see Senate Democrats lining up to defund the TSA . . .

. . . oh, they want to increase funding? And they want air travelers to pay the bill?


[My emphasis]

While I agree that the current "security" measures are overly intrusive, unreasonably costly and probably rather ineffective; exactly who other than the air travellers would you suggest should pay the bill? Should it be funded by an increase in taxes so that the burden is shared by air travellers and non-air travellers alike? Oh, I remember, republicans prefer to make sure there are enough philantropist billionaires around to take responsibility for things like this. Or rather misanthropist billionares in this case.

whistle
 
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Ilthuain wrote:
So if someone is accused of sexual abuse they shouldn't ever be able to get a job?


It is not a human right to be able to get a particular job. Employers who with good reason perform background checks of prospective employees should not be required to disregard accusations of this kind just because they were settled out of court.

Somewhat flippantly: that the catholic church has actually reacted to the case looks to the general public as a far stronger indicator of actual guilt in cases like this than any conviction in the legal system.
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Tobias Strobe
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gjerde wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
So if someone is accused of sexual abuse they shouldn't ever be able to get a job?


It is not a human right to be able to get a particular job. Employers who with good reason perform background checks of prospective employees should not be required to disregard accusations of this kind just because they were settled out of court.

Somewhat flippantly: that the catholic church has actually reacted to the case looks to the general public as a far stronger indicator of actual guilt in cases like this than any conviction in the legal system.


The guy did pass his background check with the TSA. They hired him, and now there's public outcry that he was hired... and there's outcry because the public has decided that he is guilty.

Edit: I'm not saying getting a cool job is a civil right, I'm just stating that we treat people accused of sex crimes (or guilty for that matter) as inhuman monsters who should be locked in dark cages and left to rot in misery for all time. Once somebody mentions even the possibility that someone committed this sort of act, it's pitchfork n' torches time.
 
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Ilthuain wrote:
gjerde wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
So if someone is accused of sexual abuse they shouldn't ever be able to get a job?


It is not a human right to be able to get a particular job. Employers who with good reason perform background checks of prospective employees should not be required to disregard accusations of this kind just because they were settled out of court.

Somewhat flippantly: that the catholic church has actually reacted to the case looks to the general public as a far stronger indicator of actual guilt in cases like this than any conviction in the legal system.


The guy did pass his background check with the TSA. They hired him, and now there's public outcry that he was hired... and there's outcry because the public has decided that he is guilty.


Or you could say that there is public outcry because many in the public feel that the background check has failed when this did not disqualify him. For an agency with a serious image problem it might also have been wise to consider the possibility of such a public reaction in addition to the merit of the accusations in themselves.

Quote:
Edit: I'm not saying getting a cool job is a civil right, I'm just stating that we treat people accused of sex crimes (or guilty for that matter) as inhuman monsters who should be locked in dark cages and left to rot in misery for all time. Once somebody mentions even the possibility that someone committed this sort of act, it's pitchfork n' torches time.


I don't think we are necessarily far apart on this issue. My reaction was primarily to your extension from "this particular person should probably not have been given this particular job" to "any person merely accused of sexual offences should never get any job whatsoever" (slightly exaggerated for clarity of position, original quote at the top of this post).

Being accused of sexual abuse against minors is in most cases devastating to the accused, regardless of the veracity of the accusations, and even if innocent it is almost impossible to be fully cleared of them. This does not mean that for "sensitive" positions only a guilty verdict from a court should count. Even though disqualifying him entails further "damage" to the accused who has not been found guilty beyond reasonable doubt, the purpose of a background check is in contrast to establish the closest thing possible to a "proof of innocense". If the accusations are examined and not found to be very probable without merit, he can not be said to be "non-guilty beyond reasonable doubt". Such a verdict can of course not be used as a basis for punishment or curtailment of rights, but can and should be used to disqualify for relevant privileges.

As for those found guilty in court of such crimes and having finished their legal sentences (paid recompensation to the victims and served time in jail), it should not be as if the crime was never committed. Just as someone with a criminal record for violent crime should never get a gun permit, someone with a criminal record for sexual abuse against minors should never get a job entailing a position of authority over or entrustment with children.

Edit: typo
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Boaty McBoatface
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Fwing wrote:
Thanks, Obama.


Is Oby responsible for deciding who does and does not get prosecuted?
 
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Shauneroo wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Has the TSA ever thwarted an actual terrorist attack? A cursory Googling would suggest that the official answer is "We're not saying if they did or they didn't." (Which suggests that the real answer is "No, not really.")


Here are their Top 10 Catches of 2011.


Yay, we need more security then, just imagine the things they'd find if there was more!

Gotta keep looking for the turrurrists, and to do so, your freedoms have to impinged upon. It's all for the best.


Odd how this as been turned from a debate about teh fact that a pedo have been allowed to work with children because the cases were so old (and had been hidden by the church for so long) that they can't prosecute and has instead been re-directed into a debate about heavy handed security against terrorists.

Nice to know that the safty of children is regarded as rather less important then you being searched at an airport.
 
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