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The Lord of the Rings: Nazgul» Forums » General

Subject: my rant about insert, box size and card stock. rss

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Mickey
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I am very excited as i just received this very anticipated game. I haven't had time to play yet, but i just want to share my frustration regarding the insert.
It is not the first game which insert disappoints me but i think it is 1 too many.

Although the detachable insert for the clix figures is really great, the rest just doesn't quite make it for me.

The box is too big, when removing the insert less than 40% of the box is filled, and the size of the board did not warrant such a big box.

As usual the cards cannot fit in the insert when sleeved. I know it is very common in the boardgames companies to not care about sleeves (exception of thunderstone, resident evil dbg, star trek dbg, and some others), but for this game, the card stock is so thin that i can't fathom how wizkids did not think that everyone would have to sleeve the cards.
Really, how difficult is it to make deeper card wells and leave a few mm on each sides? There is enough space in the box to fit in 5 times the amount of cards sleeved.

I am usually not 1 to rant, but it is late friday night, and i had noone to share my frustration with.
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ft
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Although what you say regarding card stock and overall box size disappoints me, I do feel for publishers regarding insert design. I feel they have three losing options:

Option 1. Don't leave space for sleeved cards. Fan response: People who sleeve are annoyed.

Option 2. Leave space for sleeved cards. Fan response: People who don't sleeve are annoyed because the cards don't fit well (and the cards might come out during shipping and damage the rest of the components). This option would probably be ideal if there was enough room to fit sleeved cards and yet it still worked well and looked good with unsleeved cards. Given how much space sleeves add, I don't think this is a possibility.

Option 3. Abandon all sense of a useful insert and use inserts akin to FFG with no designated slots for any individual components. Fan response: Complaints, but at least it kind of works for all cases.

Once you get it to the table, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the game.
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David Anderson
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Thin card stock seems to be a given with this company. Sad really, especially when you consider how much their games cost. I get better cards from ArtsCow. Shame on them for being so miserly.
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Mickey
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with the size of this box there is enough space to make wells for sleeved and wells for unsleeved cards alltogether. the option of having no insert and a much smaller box is acceptable to me. Good example: twilight struggle, lots of cards, a huge mounted board, and a very slim box.
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C Lloyd
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turtleback wrote:

Thin card stock seems to be a given with this company. Sad really, especially when you consider how much their games cost. I get better cards from ArtsCow. Shame on them for being so miserly.

I'm actually a bit surprised they didn't listen to the complaints about their previous games and improve the card stock.
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Greg Lott
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fyrian wrote:
Although what you say regarding card stock and overall box size disappoints me, I do feel for publishers regarding insert design. I feel they have three losing options:

Option 1. Don't leave space for sleeved cards. Fan response: People who sleeve are annoyed.

Option 2. Leave space for sleeved cards. Fan response: People who don't sleeve are annoyed because the cards don't fit well (and the cards might come out during shipping and damage the rest of the components). This option would probably be ideal if there was enough room to fit sleeved cards and yet it still worked well and looked good with unsleeved cards. Given how much space sleeves add, I don't think this is a possibility.

Option 3. Abandon all sense of a useful insert and use inserts akin to FFG with no designated slots for any individual components. Fan response: Complaints, but at least it kind of works for all cases.

Once you get it to the table, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the game.


I disagree. Make the freaking insert a little bigger and everyone is happy. You really think the non-sleevers will care about a couple millimeters? Not if it's done remotely correctly.

I'm TOTALLY with the OP. Why is it so freaking hard to do something like this?
 
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Mickey
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ferris1971 wrote:

I disagree. Make the freaking insert a little bigger and everyone is happy. You really think the non-sleevers will care about a couple millimeters? Not if it's done remotely correctly.

I'm TOTALLY with the OP. Why is it so freaking hard to do something like this?


The removable Nazgul figures insert is very nice and functional and shows effort has been spent on the design of the insert. I am pretty sure they could design a large well for sleeves cards and an adaptor insert to slot in for non-sleeved cards.

There are companies that make mistakes but listen to the gamers regarding storage. Take example of AEG with thunderstone, Bandai with their collection of deck builders.
Other simply don't : out of 7 dominion boxes, not 1 has been though with efficient storage in mind.

Another game that got praised for the insert : Lords of Waterdeep. Same complaint here : all the efforts to make a nice insert to fit all the bits is wasted on sleevers. I had to actually widen the card wells with a pen knife. Talk about esthetics ...
 
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Derek VDG
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I picked this game up Saturday, and a group of 4 of us played it Saturday night.

To quote the two ladies in our group, who primarily managed/handled the cards for our game:

"There is a difference between flexible and flimsy. These cards are flexible."

They loved the cards. They reported that the cards felt sturdy, but not stiff. They were flexible and easy to shuffle and handle, unlike a lot of new cards in games where the cards are stiff and unyielding, and need to get "broken in". The cards did not feel cheap, nor like they were in danger of being damaged by handling.

As far as storage, I don't see why a game company needs to cater to those who sleeve their cards. Making the card holders bigger does in fact pose a problem if you do not sleeve your cards. The larger width and height does mean that it is quite a bit more likely that the cards will shift and come out of the tray.
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Mickey
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dvang wrote:
I picked this game up Saturday, and a group of 4 of us played it Saturday night.

To quote the two ladies in our group, who primarily managed/handled the cards for our game:

"There is a difference between flexible and flimsy. These cards are flexible."

They loved the cards. They reported that the cards felt sturdy, but not stiff. They were flexible and easy to shuffle and handle, unlike a lot of new cards in games where the cards are stiff and unyielding, and need to get "broken in". The cards did not feel cheap, nor like they were in danger of being damaged by handling.

As far as storage, I don't see why a game company needs to cater to those who sleeve their cards. Making the card holders bigger does in fact pose a problem if you do not sleeve your cards. The larger width and height does mean that it is quite a bit more likely that the cards will shift and come out of the tray.


Surely you haven't read about all the complaints about components quality of Mage Knight Board Game from Wizkids as well. I happen to own this 1 too. Great game, but the cards are flimsy just like The Lord of the Rings: Nazgul cards. When sleeving Mage knight cards in a slightly tight sleeve I tore 2 cards. It never happened to me with any of my other card games however tight were the sleeves.

 
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Nick Greuel
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I love the Mage Knight cards. I haven't seen any other games with that kind of card before. If you really look at them, it almost looks like they are made of fabric or something. Very unique. But I haven't had any problems with them getting damaged. They stuck together when I first opened the box, but that was it. It's kind of funny that you damaged yours by sleeving them. No sleeves might have been a better option for this game.
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Hubert AMG
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MK (same as Star trek) - have the same problem with the cards - looks like they were printed on some business cards paper and require sleeves. Nazgul however are totally different quality. In my opinion better. I still did not sleeve them (even though I like having my cards sleeved) and there is no visible degradation of the cards. If I decide to do so - I think there is no need of using thick sleeves (as it was with MK and ST).

The board however in Nazgul is not a dream board
 
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