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Subject: Jesus, Friend of Sinners rss

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Lynette
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Routinely in this forum people post news articles and videos of people who are spewing hate and/or misguided crap supposedly under the guise of Christianity. I usually have never even heard of these people, in spite of my deep immersion in the Christian Culture, and usually the crap they are saying doesn't line up with any common teachings I know of, even though I have a more than passing familiarity with several denominations basic teachings.

None the Less this along with other things that routinely get brought up in here and presented as common within Christianity I think have skewed the views of many people who are NOT routinely exposed to the more common ideas and actions of actively practicing Christians in an up close and personal way.

So for today I would like to post a song. It was recorded by one of the top selling Christian Bands. It is currently rocketing up the Christian Song Single Charts, and is now in the top 10 this week.

This is far more representative of the Christian Culture I hear and interact with every day. Millions of Christians are listening to this and taking it to heart. Please take a few minutes to actually listen to it.







I have heard at least a dozen different people in the past couple of weeks talking about how this song has brought them under personal conviction of places they are failing and reminded them of what we are supposed to be focused on. How they have been asking God to show them places they are not loving the way He would have us Love. To help them be more Like Him every day.

Christians are not perfect and nobody knows it better than we do. No group of humans is more genuinely brokenhearted about our failures as a collected whole than we are ourselves. And the vast majority of us work on improving ourselves and our extended community without ceasing.

And yet in spite of our many Many MANY failures. We still are a light for good in the world. Praise be to God for that.





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Rich Shipley
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There may be some great message in there, but that song is terrible. It makes me want to stab myself in the head.

Aside from that, I know there are many people who are Christians that are great people, but I haven't noticed that the religion itself makes much of a difference. People seem to make of it what they will. They can profess it while doing good, or profess it while spreading hatred.

You may not have heard about people like Pat Robertson and James Dobson, but they have millions of followers that believe their evil rants. I've known quite a few of them. People with bad ideas they feel are backed by God are pretty damn annoying and that's the main reason that you hear about them so much. The congregation down the street that helps feed and clothe people just doesn't get the same attention.
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Damian
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This seems like a good place to leave this:


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いい竹やぶだ!

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Unfortunately, the small percentage of evil bastards who profess hatred and bigotry in the name of Christianity wield a disproportionate amount of political power in the USA. Just look at the GOP also-rans for the presidential race this year, for example, and note the numbers of votes they got in the early primaries.
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quelf elf
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"The lepers and the lame?" Talk about the easy way out.

Look, I appreciate the sentiment, but until I see a similarly-viral one calling for Christians to embrace the mentally ill, death row inmates, street people, meth addicts, gang bangers, and terrorists, I'll withhold my applause.

Quote:
No group of humans is more genuinely brokenhearted about our failures as a collected whole than we are ourselves.

...is one of the more fatuous self-congratulory things I've read this week. Besides, the Jews and Muslims have you totally beat on it anyway.

Wanna exemplify Christ's teachings? Love. That's it. Approach every person you meet with unconditional love in your heart, and show them you have it. Don't tell people how to vote, what to believe, where to put their money, whom to marry or how to live their lives in any way. Don't record shitty faux-metal songs filled with outdated platitudes. Love everyone. That's it.
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Boaty McBoatface
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robigo wrote:
Unfortunately, the small percentage of evil bastards who profess hatred and bigotry in the name of Christianity wield a disproportionate amount of political power in the USA. Just look at the GOP also-rans for the presidential race this year, for example, and note the numbers of votes they got in the early primaries.


This is one of the problems I have with this whole "but they do not represent the majority of Christians" argument. They have a lot of power and money for people who represent a tiny minority.

Now in truth this may in part be due to the amount of money some of them have, money begets power, but it's hard to understand the votes they get (unless they are being voted for by non-Christians (a but hard to shallow that). It may be they do not represent the majority of Christians, but they are a sizable minority at the very least.

Maybe it really is time for moderate Christianity to demonstrate that these people do not represent Christ.
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Mac Mcleod
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I too have problems with the, "But they are not real christians" line of reasoning based on voting record evidence.

Something went very wrong about 1980.


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Boaty McBoatface
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maxo-texas wrote:
I too have problems with the, "But they are not real christians" line of reasoning based on voting record evidence.

Something went very wrong about 1980.




No, I think what was said is that they are not a tiny minority.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I too have problems with the, "But they are not real christians" line of reasoning based on voting record evidence.

Something went very wrong about 1980.




No, I think what was said is that they are not a tiny minority.


I'm referring to my personal experience. Every time christians do something bad (even large mega churches), my christian friends always say, "Well those are not real christians".
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Boaty McBoatface
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maxo-texas wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I too have problems with the, "But they are not real christians" line of reasoning based on voting record evidence.

Something went very wrong about 1980.




No, I think what was said is that they are not a tiny minority.


I'm referring to my personal experience. Every time christians do something bad (even large mega churches), my christian friends always say, "Well those are not real christians".


Ahh I see. I would agree that there does seem to be a tendancy for Christians to use the Scotsman argument, but I am not sure how this is refelcted in voting paterns.
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Neil Carr
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The kind of Christian community I grew up in was all about social justice, all day every day.





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echoota wrote:
The kind of Christian community I grew up in was all about social justice, all day every day.


And the UCC has about a million members.
 
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quozl wrote:
echoota wrote:
The kind of Christian community I grew up in was all about social justice, all day every day.


And the UCC has about a million members.


Yeah, that's the part that's really sad.
 
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Lynette
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robigo wrote:
Unfortunately, the small percentage of evil bastards who profess hatred and bigotry in the name of Christianity wield a disproportionate amount of political power in the USA. Just look at the GOP also-rans for the presidential race this year, for example, and note the numbers of votes they got in the early primaries.


The IDEA that the GOP is all about and only Christians and the Democrats are mostly the Non-Religous or others is a ridiculous fallacy.

I am loathe to help derail my own thread but I cannot let this stand unanswered.


In both the Democrat and Republican parties largest percentage of strongest "activists" are religious AND the vast majority of those activists in BOTH parties are Christians.

If a heck of a lot of REAL Christians didn't VOTE liberal the Republicans would win every elections hands down.


-----

Here is a good survey on RELIGIOUS motivations tied to political activism.

[url http://publicreligion.org/research/2009/09/conservative-prog... [/url]

I would suggest you read the entire survey from 2009 I think it is very interesting.

But I will even clip out these bits for you.

In terms of religious affiliation, conservative activists are almost exclusively Christian, whereas progressive activists are more diverse. Among conservative activists, 54% identify as evangelical Protestant, 35% as Roman Catholic, and 9% with Mainline Protestantism. Among progressive activists, 44% identify as Mainline Protestants; 17% as Roman Catholics; 10% as evangelical Protestants; 12% as interfaith, mixed faith, or Unitarian; 6% Jewish; and 8% who have no formal religious affiliation or identify as formerly affiliated.

In terms of practices, both groups of activists report religion is important in their lives at higher levels than the public at large. Among the conservative religious activists, 96% say religion is extremely or very important in their lives; among the progressive activists, that figure is 74%; among the public, it is 62%.

...

Issue priorities. Conservative and progressive religious activists have strikingly different issue priorities. A majority of conservative religious activists gave priority to abortion and same-sex marriage, while progressive religious activists gave priority to a number if issues, including economic justice, the environment, and peace. Conservative religious activists overwhelmingly identify abortion (83%) and same-sex marriage (65%) as most important priorities among a set of eight issue areas. Fewer than 10% of progressive religious activists call those “most important” issues. Highest priorities for progressive activists are poverty (74%), health care (67%), environment (56%), jobs/economy (48%), and the Iraq war (45%).

...

In terms of future public engagement, both conservative and progressive activists strongly emphasized the importance of being publicly visible and politically active. Conservative activists were more likely to emphasize the importance of prayer, whereas progressive activists were more likely to emphasize the importance of civility, pluralism, and social justice.

----

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Tino casals
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I don't know how it works in the states but if it is as in southern Europe this is my opinion:

I am somehow immersed in a christian environment and don't believe anymore the "other church" argument. If you believe really in another church, if they are not real christians, if you don't agree with what your superiors [as some of they are] do, do make a REAL revolution and cut the economical links with them. Until you don't cut the umbilical cord with the official church you are part of them and therefore an accessory.
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Trey Stone
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Or how about make up your own mind about what the problem is and how you should approach it, rather than any "official" church position or someone hectoring from the outside.
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Meerkat wrote:
It is currently rocketing up the Christian Song Single Charts, and is now in the top 10 this week.
Well, the next time I go to Chick-Fil-A I'm sure it will be blaring in my ear along with many other such "hits."
But goddammit, that place has really good chicken sammiches, so I guess it is just my cross to bear.

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pronoblem baalberith
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Holy fucking christ, that song is horrible.
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Dave G
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pronoblem wrote:
Holy fucking christ, that song is horrible.


Christian music has always been awful. I have some hilarious CDs from the part of my childhood where that was all I was allowed to listen to. Carman, Michael W. Smith, DC Talk, Petra, Steven Curtis Chapman…all hilariously bad.

DC Talk was the worst, though. Incredibly lame, pandering to teenagers by trying to seem "cool" they were always a couple years behind the trends. Case in point--this song was from an album that was supposed to give Christian kids their own rap music to listen to. Look at the style here, and remember that this was from the same year that Dr. Dre released The Chronic and introduced "gangsta rap" to the suburbs. Imagine being a twelve-year old who heard "Nuthin' but a G Thang" and wanted that sound, only to have your mom pick this MC Hammer-wannabe horseshit up at the Christian bookstore:

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Lynette
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djgutierrez77 wrote:


Christian music has always been awful. I have some hilarious CDs from the part of my childhood where that was all I was allowed to listen to. Carman, Michael W. Smith, DC Talk, Petra, Steven Curtis Chapman…all hilariously bad.


Well since I love ALL those artists, always have.* and I lost a great deal of my music when my house burned... feel free to send me all the stuff languishing on your shelf. I will be grateful to have it.

*note for the record I also will admit to loving Disco, Barry Manilow, Folk Music (Way beyond just Peter Paul and Mary) ABBA, John Denver, Classical Music, a lot of top 40 stuff, a lot of country, blue grass including banjos, and well most stuff people decry as being awful that somehow still made a lot of money.

Heck I even love Bagpipe and drum corps.
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Dave G
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Meerkat wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:


Christian music has always been awful. I have some hilarious CDs from the part of my childhood where that was all I was allowed to listen to. Carman, Michael W. Smith, DC Talk, Petra, Steven Curtis Chapman…all hilariously bad.


Well since I love ALL those artists, always have.* and I lost a great deal of my music when my house burned... feel free to send me all the stuff languishing on your shelf. I will be grateful to have it.

*note for the record I also will admit to loving Disco, Barry Manilow, Folk Music (Way beyond just Peter Paul and Mary) ABBA, John Denver, Classical Music, a lot of top 40 stuff, a lot of country, blue grass including banjos, and well most stuff people decry as being awful that somehow still made a lot of money.

Heck I even love Bagpipe and drum corps.


If I can find it in my parent's basement, it's all yours for the taking. I'll let you know after we move and I go out there to collect all our stuff that's in storage.
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Lynette
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Thanks!
 
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pronoblem wrote:
Holy fucking christ, that song is horrible.

Amen.

It may not speak well of me, but if a Christian reveals they find beauty in something as horrible as that song, it makes me question the very bedrock of their beliefs. Christians, take note: If witnessing for Christ is your goal, listening to Christian music is very counterproductive.

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Meerkat wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:


Christian music has always been awful. I have some hilarious CDs from the part of my childhood where that was all I was allowed to listen to. Carman, Michael W. Smith, DC Talk, Petra, Steven Curtis Chapman…all hilariously bad.


Well since I love ALL those artists, always have.* and I lost a great deal of my music when my house burned... feel free to send me all the stuff languishing on your shelf. I will be grateful to have it.

*note for the record I also will admit to loving Disco, Barry Manilow, Folk Music (Way beyond just Peter Paul and Mary) ABBA, John Denver, Classical Music, a lot of top 40 stuff, a lot of country, blue grass including banjos, and well most stuff people decry as being awful that somehow still made a lot of money.

Heck I even love Bagpipe and drum corps.


You just listed everything I hate I do love classical music though so maybe there is still hope for me.

Anyway to your original point, if people had the ability to actually follow a lot of what their religion says there would not be a tiny fraction of the issues we have today. I absolutely agree with you there.

The problem is religion can and is used to support any bigotry or belief someone wants. Basing a personal point of view on a concept with no evidence means there is no limit to the points of view and possible actions which can be validated by reference to religion. This is illustrated throughout history and is very much in evidence today.

That is one reason why atheists such as myself feel religion is a poison to society irrespective of how well intended someone's beliefs are. There is nothing good a theist can do that an atheist couldn't do even without the bribery of an eternal life or the desperate fear of eternal agony.

Oh and if anyone thinks the New Testament is all about being nice, they can always get a reality check from reading the disturbing words of St Paul.
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Lynette
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You know I posted this for the message in the LYRICS that were by Christians FOR Christians to be a counter example to the ones often posted around here that imply we Christians mostly sit around bad mouthing others, fostering hate, and planning our next legal attack on things others consider to be fun.

I really wasn't looking for a musical critique.



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