Nate Straight

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The Seller Guide clearly states "When you confirm the order make sure to enter in the shipping charges and payment instructions so that the buyer will know what to do next."

The actual confirmation screen, however, as I recall from a recent sale of my own and a recent seller I'm buying from has informed me, has an option not to enter shipping costs.

But, there doesn't seem to be a way to go back later and add the shipping costs [or payment instructions, for that matter] into the system as part of the transaction record.

Effectively, what this seller just did [after he confirmed a sale he made to me, leaving shipping blank] was send me an invoice agreeing to sell me the game for $5 + $0 shipping.

I see no contractual reason why I couldn't stiff him the shipping, pay him the $5, and ask him to send the game. As far as BGG's marketplace is concerned, this is our agreement.

There is no notification in the confirmation email / message that shipping costs will be provided / agreed upon later. It simply says "Below is the total cost of the items".

In fact, it even says "The seller has confirmed the order and agreed to ship these items after receiving payment." so seems to contractually obligate him to $0 shipping.

This is a real problem.
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Nate Straight

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Yet another problem arising from this system is that he can now quote me any shipping price he likes in his to-be-sent Paypal invoice and BGG has no real way of resolving any dispute I might have [since they don't have access to the third-party invoice for the transaction in order to look at the quoted shipping cost and see whether it's reasonable].

If I tell him "That's not what you quoted me; I refuse to pay that", BGG will look at the issue and say "You quoted him no shipping expense" and have absolutely no reasonable recourse [in my or his favor] to pursue. BGG obviously won't force him [I'd assume] to ship at his expense, but would have no way of talking about the quoted shipping cost.
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Dave Heberer
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Lake Stevens
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Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean that really got out of hand fast.
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I don't think the marketplace is as formal as all that. I've had probably about 10-15 people not pay me after I confirmed the sale. I have no real recourse other than to cancel the transaction. If they confirm they cancelation, then it happens but if they don't BGG still thinks I owe them 3%.

I have only left the shipping cost blank if they haven't provided me with a valid address. But, I know that the seller form that is filled out specifically says that you should leave it blank if you and the buyer are still working out the shipping costs. I would think of the sale more as you've locked in the game at the price, if the shipping is not agreeable to you when it is worked out, cancel the sale. It seems fair.
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Nate Straight

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i7dealer wrote:
I don't think the marketplace is as formal as all that.


BoardGameGeek is earning money off of it.

People are entering into legally binding contracts with it.

Therefore, it should be "as formal as that".


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Dave Heberer
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Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean that really got out of hand fast.
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NateStraight wrote:
i7dealer wrote:
I don't think the marketplace is as formal as all that.


BoardGameGeek is earning money off of it.

People are entering into legally binding contracts with it.

Therefore, it should be "as formal as that".




You are preaching to the choir about BGG making money off it. Every time I run an auction and people don't buy the stuff they bid on, or buy something in the marketplace and don't pay and don't want the thing, every time I manually transfer 20 items from a geeklist to a marketplace item I remember how much work it is just for BGG to get their cut. I've complained, and the marketplace/auction system is not a priority for the dev team.

I'm telling you the same answer I've gotten from the admins about deals that have gone wrong. Cancel it. When you buy the item, there's nothing that prevents me from confirming with a ridiculous shipping price. You've entered into the contract blind from the beginning, no? I don't state shipping prices until I confirm the purchase, and by then we've entered the same state that you are sad about.
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Dave Heberer
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Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean that really got out of hand fast.
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And, I'm no lawyer, but I would think that the contract part of our agreement starts when money or goods change hands. I think of the marketplace as having a non-performance clause that says 'if party A doesn't send money, party B is absolved of having to send them the game. If party A sends money, and party B doesn't send a game, party B gets their money back from party A'. I do agree that non-performance isn't spelled out anywhere, which is a problem.

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col_w
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i7dealer wrote:
the marketplace/auction system is not a priority for the dev team.


That's not true. It's been stated by admins many times that the marketplace is some of the oldest code on the site, needs a complete overhaul, and is the next project after the UI overhaul.

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col_w wrote:
i7dealer wrote:
the marketplace/auction system is not a priority for the dev team.


That's not true. It's been stated by admins many times that the marketplace is some of the oldest code on the site, needs a complete overhaul, and is the next project after the UI overhaul.



Your statement doesn't not imply that mine is incorrect. It's not a priority for them. It is third on a list of stuff to work on, and that was list was set out about a year ago to me. If they stated that they are going to do something after a year or so, that means it isn't really a priority item for them.

I'm well aware of the promises of a marketplace overhaul, because I stopped donating to them when I realized that:

a) I give them probably 2 times the donation amount in marketplace fees
b) they were unwilling to prioritize the thing I was giving them money for.

Your avatar has long freaked me out. Just thought I'd throw that out there too.
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Daniel Kearns
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Bloomington
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col_w wrote:
i7dealer wrote:
the marketplace/auction system is not a priority for the dev team.


That's not true. It's been stated by admins many times that the marketplace is some of the oldest code on the site, needs a complete overhaul, and is the next project after the UI overhaul.



I guess so.

But I feel like I've been hearing this for years, and if that's the case, it can't really be a priority.

I'd rather see some actual changes than just be told changes are a priority over and over.
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John Bandettini
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When I have sold games through the marketplace, I send the buyer a note saying how much the shipping is and telling them the total amount. I then ask that if they wish to continue please pay the stated amount to my paypal account.

If they proceed, and most have, I then mark it as confirmed, shipped etc and pay board game geek their cut, if applicable.
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