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Subject: Clarifications on Retreating rss

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JP
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Hello all! Still waiting on my preorder, but I have a few questions about retreating:

Can you have some ships of a certain type remain and fight while other ships of the same type attempt to retreat, or must all remain/retreat?

I also have questions about reputation tiles, "taking part in a battle" and the "retreat penalty", but instead of asking them, I'm just going to rephrase the rules, and you can tell me if I'm right or wrong:

Quote:
Reputation Tiles: After all battles in a hex have been resolved, each involved player draws Reputation tiles from the bag as follows:
- 1 tile for "winning" all battles
- 1 tile for "dying honourably": losing all your ships in that hex without trying to retreat
- ...


Is this accurate? Thanks!
 
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Chuckhazard
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jpeters wrote:
Hello all! Still waiting on my preorder, but I have a few questions about retreating:

Can you have some ships of a certain type remain and fight while other ships of the same type attempt to retreat, or must all remain/retreat?

I also have questions about reputation tiles, "taking part in a battle" and the "retreat penalty", but instead of asking them, I'm just going to rephrase the rules, and you can tell me if I'm right or wrong:

Quote:
Reputation Tiles: After all battles in a hex have been resolved, each involved player draws Reputation tiles from the bag as follows:
- 1 tile for "winning" all battles
- 1 tile for "dying honourably": losing all your ships in that hex without trying to retreat
- ...


Is this accurate? Thanks!


When you retreat, you retreat all ships of a type - all fighters or all cruisers or all dreadnoughts, etc. Or a combination.

I'm not sure what you're asking about the retreats. My understanding is that if you do a partial retreat (i.e. fighters retreat, cruisers stay to fight), some ships have to be left after the retreat to claim the dying honorably tile.
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Mike Watne
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Your rephrasing is not accurate, or at least is potentially misleading.

- You receive a reputation tile for participating in the battle, whether you win or lose.

- This tile is forfeit if you retreat all ships, even if they are all destroyed while trying to retreat.

- You can retreat some ships (ALL ships of a particular class must retreat or remain together) and leave other ships (of a different class). You will receive a tile for participating so long as these remaining ships do not try to retreat.

- You do not receive any tiles for "winning" battles. Instead, you are allowed to draw more tiles based on the ships that you destroy.

For example: If you LOSE a battle, do not retreat, and managed to destroy an enemy interceptor, you would draw 2 tiles. If you WIN a battle and destroyed a single enemy interceptor, you would also draw 2 tiles. As with all reputation tile draws, you will only keep one tile. Drawing more tiles improves your odds of getting better scores.

Therefore, it doesn't matter if you win or lose the battle. It only matters that at least one class of your ships does not attempt to retreat until the bitter end. Both sides will draw tiles based on the destruction they sow, regardless of the outcome of the battle.

Based on that, you'll see that fighting often and early, often sacrificing material assets in the process, usually makes for better Reputation Tile draws and can have a significant impact on the outcome of a game. I hope that helps. Cheers!

[Edit: Clarity]
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JP
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Ah, I see. When I read the "retreat penalty" section, I was interpreting "remaining" to mean "surviving". It makes more sense now.

Thanks for your responses!
 
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dypaca
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So if I have two types of ships, say Cruiser and Dreadnaught, and I choose to have my Dreadnaught retreat, then my Cruiser is destroyed before its next action, does that count as all my ships retreating?

Basically, is the penalty determined when you command a ship type to retreat, or at any point when all your ships remaining in the hex are in the process of retreating?
 
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Chuckhazard
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dypaca wrote:
So if I have two types of ships, say Cruiser and Dreadnaught, and I choose to have my Dreadnaught retreat, then my Cruiser is destroyed before its next action, does that count as all my ships retreating?

Basically, is the penalty determined when you command a ship type to retreat, or at any point when all your ships remaining in the hex are in the process of retreating?


I'm having trouble finding references to back this up, but here's how I think it goes. If your dreadnaught retreats and your cruiser sticks around, and is destroyed, you get no participation tile.

If your cruiser survived that round - and then stuck around (either winning or being destroyed without calling a retreat) you would then get a participation draw.

Edit: Well, hmph. This comment seems to contradict me. It isn't from the designer, but the designer was in that thread, and didn't contradict it. I'd go with that ruling.
 
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Jason Cawley
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No, just one ship class not retreating and getting destroyed is sufficient to have fought the battle out, avoiding the "run away" penalty.

Remember also that ships cannot attempt to retreat in the first combat round, only in the second and later rounds. A ship actually retreats at the same time it would fire, in place of its chance to fire. And you don't have to decide whether it will retreat or fire until its initiative "turn" comes around, so there isn't any "trying" involved, really.

If the ship is dead before it gets to its initiative (counting down from high to low), then it stayed to the end and did not retreat. If the ship is alive when it gets to its initiative and the round is not the first one, then if it wants to retreat, it just doesn't get to fire and successfully retreats instead. It doesn't need to stay another round, or declare its intention earlier.

 
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Ben P.
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JasonC wrote:
Remember also that ships cannot attempt to retreat in the first combat round, only in the second and later rounds.

Where do you get that from? You can not retreat in the first round but surely you can attempt to retreat (i.e. declare your retreat) in round 1.

JasonC wrote:
A ship actually retreats at the same time it would fire, in place of its chance to fire. And you don't have to decide whether it will retreat or fire until its initiative "turn" comes around, so there isn't any "trying" involved, really.

I see a lot of trying involved since your ships can be shot at for another whole combat round before they actually leave combat.

JasonC wrote:
If the ship is alive when it gets to its initiative and the round is not the first one, then if it wants to retreat, it just doesn't get to fire and successfully retreats instead. It doesn't need to stay another round, or declare its intention earlier.

Yes it does, see rules page 20:
"Each of your Ship types may on its turn decide to either attack or retreat. [...] When you decide to retreat your Ships, move them to the edge of a neighboring hex to show that they are retreating. [...] While the ships are on the edge of the hex, they are retreating and can still be shot at. The next time it is the retreating Ships' turn, all of them must move to the neighboring hex. They have now fully retreated and can no longer be shot at."
 
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Martin

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JasonC wrote:


Remember also that ships cannot attempt to retreat in the first combat round, only in the second and later rounds. A ship actually retreats at the same time it would fire, in place of its chance to fire. And you don't have to decide whether it will retreat or fire until its initiative "turn" comes around, so there isn't any "trying" involved, really.

If the ship is dead before it gets to its initiative (counting down from high to low), then it stayed to the end and did not retreat. If the ship is alive when it gets to its initiative and the round is not the first one, then if it wants to retreat, it just doesn't get to fire and successfully retreats instead. It doesn't need to stay another round, or declare its intention earlier.



A lot of this seems incorrect to me.

Also, where are you guys getting that all ships of a certain type must retreat together?

P20:
"Each Ship type of each player is activated in Initiative order. Each of your Ship types may on its turn decide to either attack or retreat."

I guess I don't read that as every ship of a type has to either all attack together or all retreat together. Or was there some more clarification elsewhere?
 
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Chuckhazard
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Retreating by ship or by Ship type
PoweredBySoy wrote:
JasonC wrote:


Remember also that ships cannot attempt to retreat in the first combat round, only in the second and later rounds. A ship actually retreats at the same time it would fire, in place of its chance to fire. And you don't have to decide whether it will retreat or fire until its initiative "turn" comes around, so there isn't any "trying" involved, really.

If the ship is dead before it gets to its initiative (counting down from high to low), then it stayed to the end and did not retreat. If the ship is alive when it gets to its initiative and the round is not the first one, then if it wants to retreat, it just doesn't get to fire and successfully retreats instead. It doesn't need to stay another round, or declare its intention earlier.



A lot of this seems incorrect to me.

Also, where are you guys getting that all ships of a certain type must retreat together?

P20:
"Each Ship type of each player is activated in Initiative order. Each of your Ship types may on its turn decide to either attack or retreat."

I guess I don't read that as every ship of a type has to either all attack together or all retreat together. Or was there some more clarification elsewhere?


The interpretation given here is correct. All cruisers retreat as a group, interceptors, etc. Supporting material from Antti (Not a designer I don't think, but equivalent) here.
 
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Martin

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chuckhazard wrote:

The interpretation given here is correct. All cruisers retreat as a group, interceptors, etc. Supporting material from Antti (Not a designer I don't think, but equivalent) here.


Thanks.
 
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