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Subject: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee articles no. 1 to no. 4) rss

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Michael
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An interesting article on the development of some game elements by Peter Lee and Kevin Tatroe:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120606

And article no. 2 is online:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120613

And no. 3:

http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120620

And no. 4:

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120627#...

Edited to keep updating most recent links.
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K.Y. Wong
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Very funny how Kevin thought it crazy not to have dice in a D&D skirmish game. laugh
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Kevin Tatroe
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Looking back, I'm very glad I got cold feet, and we got to design through a lot of versions of the game with the die before getting to the diceless version -- I think the game ended up stronger for it in the end.

Keeping the die in for so long allowed us to experiment a bit more in other areas since we still had that attack roll grounding us in the long history of previous D&D miniatures games, and many of those experiments got the game to its final design.
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K.Y. Wong
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Hi Kevin, great to see you in these forums!

Could you provide some insight as to why the final rules were changed (from the playtest) to allow untapping of creatures at the end of a player's cleanup phase?
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Kevin Tatroe
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
I'd have to leave that to Pete to describe (and I'd imagine he'll touch on it in the next Design & Development article).

It does make for a bit cleaner of a turn structure, and definitely helps make balancing factions simpler, especially in the light of allowing war band building (when untapping drow was their schtick, it was harder to drop a single drow into a new warband, for example).
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K.Y. Wong
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Ah, that reason alone makes perfect sense. Thanks and looking forward to the rest of the articles!
 
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
ktatroe wrote:
I'd have to leave that to Pete to describe (and I'd imagine he'll touch on it in the next Design & Development article).

It does make for a bit cleaner of a turn structure, and definitely helps make balancing factions simpler, especially in the light of allowing war band building (when untapping drow was their schtick, it was harder to drop a single drow into a new warband, for example).


I look forward to seeing the game in action!

Care to swing by Thornton to teach me? I have beer and foosball.
 
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Rob
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
With the official rulebook out I'm looking forward to give this a try the coming weekend, the drow/cormyr minis should all be in my DDM collection but:

I have to use the playtest version of the unit/tactic cards of course, so my question would be if there is a big difference to the final cards?! or can you still play a reasonable testgame with the playtest material?

I mean if it's totally broken with the current material I better keep my hands off...
 
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Michael
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
A new preview is out:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4dnd/duncomman...

Nothing major, but a closer look at some tiles and info regarding tile quantity.

Most interesting to me is the little "treasure" patch on the tiles. This could function nicely to ensure compatibility to the adventure systems (i.e. similar to mushroom patch, bone pile or charred stone).
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Robert Beachler
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Still won't buy into the game. It's just not worth it and I don't trust WotC as they'll likely just discontinue it in a couple years.
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Simon Gingras
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
What a strange way to look at things. Most everything goes away after a few years. We might be dead in a few years. Why deprive yourself of anything?

If you're not interested in the game, that's fine, no need to justify it one way or the other.
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Yeah, not really sure why you don't think WotC is supporting this game. Six faction packs are already announced and I would wager a bet that ten or more get released.
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K.Y. Wong
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
robbdaman wrote:
Still won't buy into the game. It's just not worth it and I don't trust WotC as they'll likely just discontinue it in a couple years.

Robert, this version of D&D's skirmish game will be using pre-built factions. Hence it has fixed units that will be something akin to fantasy chess (very much like Summoner Wars) and will provide unlimited playability even without future support from Wizards. It does not lend itself to the warband building meta-game that is typically tainted with rarities and game balance issues.

Each faction will also provide some variety due to the choice of Commanders and players being able to tune the Order deck.

Of course, this doesn't automatically mean it is a game worth buying and playing but the playtest material which they released last year was very encouraging, imo.
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
robbdaman wrote:
Still won't buy into the game. It's just not worth it and I don't trust WotC as they'll likely just discontinue it in a couple years.


They've already paid the sunken costs of the sculpts and have the fanboy audience of the D&D adventure boardgames, the D&D 3.x and 4e folks, and anyone who's been collecting the D&D miniatures. Heck, toss in HeroScape, since HeroScapers.com will be making custom army cards for the *only* non-random fantasy miniatures prepaints on the market. and these sculpts were used for the D&D HeroScape line.

What *is* interesting is that the upcoming 5e is going *away* from miniatures. I'd like to see the sales of the D&D boardgames vs. the RPG line.

The tricky part is when WotC runs out of figures from the D&D miniatures line to make new armies. DC comes with new sculpts. Are these new sculpts made for DC, or were they sculpts made for but not used in the original D&D miniatures line?
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Michael
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
I might pick up one pack if we can organise some games over BGG forums. My wife prefers coop games that don't require a lot of planning, and most of my friends are more into the RPG side of D&D.

I prefer the Goblins faction so far, but I'm hoping for a Drizzt pack. Drizzt, Bruenor, Wulfgar, Catti-brie, Regis, Guenhwyvar, Montolio, Andahar, Pwent and three other dwarves or secondary characters.

Realistically, there are so many factions available and so many miniatures already made - it's easy money-making for WotC if the product sells. Support should last a long while...

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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Zwerg wrote:
I might pick up one pack if we can organise some games over BGG forums. My wife prefers coop games that don't require a lot of planning, and most of my friends are more into the RPG side of D&D.

I prefer the Goblins faction so far, but I'm hoping for a Drizzt pack. Drizzt, Bruenor, Wulfgar, Catti-brie, Regis, Guenhwyvar, Montolio, Andahar, Pwent and three other dwarves or secondary characters.

Realistically, there are so many factions available and so many miniatures already made - it's easy money-making for WotC if the product sells. Support should last a long while...



The PBF potential for this game would be right up my alley. My wife doesn't like direct conflict and I have no local friends interested in this.
 
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K.Y. Wong
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article)
Zwerg wrote:
Most interesting to me is the little "treasure" patch on the tiles. This could function nicely to ensure compatibility to the adventure systems (i.e. similar to mushroom patch, bone pile or charred stone).

If used for the adventure games, these tiles would have to be brought into play under the scenario's rules anyway, so there will be great flexibility on how the tiles can be used or special rules for them.

For the first tile, we could say ranged attacks are limited to 1 tile away. For the 2nd tile, maybe something like "All 4 tiles are considered adjacent to each other", so no kiting, hehe.
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Michael
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
A new preview article is up:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120613

I like the idea of cards that alter attacks and defences, but without seeing it played, I find it difficult to imagine how much or little fun the game will be.
Also, without a die, I'd prefer a game system in which the more skilled/ experienced/ prepared player wins *most* of the time. It'll be interesting to see whether this will be the case.
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Bartosz Popow
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
The whole without dice thing is what intrigues me the most about this game. Without it I'd probably wouldn't have looked at it. Thanks to it though I checked the rule book and it indeed looks interesting.
 
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K.Y. Wong
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
It's fascinating to read how the game evolved through collaboration between different game designers.

I really like the simple yet effective card design, the full color images and caption on each card creates a great sense of immersion.
 
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Robert Beachler
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
It's just that I've played enough in the way of WotC's miniatures games and they have only served to get me interested before being cancelled. Hasbro doesn't need my money and I don't think the mechanics are any better than what has come before. In fact I would say the opposite, Heroscape was a better game and always will be. Even D&D Minis was better even if it had severe Magic like power creep obsolescence issues.
 
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K.Y. Wong
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
I've tried D&D Miniatures. It was ok but I felt most of the fun was in building your own warband rather than the actual game itself. Dungeon Command (playtest version) felt very different, you warband is fixed so the focus shifts towards the decisions you will have to make during the game. The mind-game with your opponent is quite heavy since there is no luck during the combat resolution, only a lot of second-guessing.
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Simon Gingras
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
Design & Development article 3: http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120620.

Regards.
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Thomas Haver
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
Design and Development Detail: Pete Lee is a nice guy.
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Michael
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Re: Design & Development of Dungeon Command (Peter Lee article) UPDATE
Aimon wrote:
Design & Development article 3: http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20120620.

Regards.


Thanks! I'll add it to the first post.
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