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Sedition Wars: Battle for Alabaster» Forums » General

Subject: Difference between $85 and $100 Level rss

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Charlie Theel
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I thought this was a bit odd when looking over the Kickstarter. I was considering pledging at the $85 level but realized I actually would receive no benefit as oposed to waiting for the game to arrive at my LGS (Miniature Market) where I could pay less.

Now, If I pledged $100 I would get additional content (the extra 25 minis) from the Stretch Rewards but now I'm looking at paying somewhere around $35 just for those extra minis.

As of now I'm probably going to sit on the fence until I see what additional stretch rewards are unlocked, but I'm bringing this up not to complain, but to point out that there's not a huge incentive to pledge at the $85 level at the moment. This doesn't appear to be hurting the campaign much but it may be something to consider if you wish to pull in more backers.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
$85 makes even less sense as there's promise of a campaign that will require the additional minis.
 
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Keegan Fink
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
There's something wrong with your math. Where are you getting $35 from? The difference between the two lowest box levels is $15 (with free shipping in the USA).

CMoN (the publisher running the campaign) has stated that stretch goals that refer to "every box" means that those items will ship in the base game (the one found at the lower pledge level, as well as those to be sold later through stores). At present, those stretch goals that refer specifically to a certain pledge level will remain tied only to that pledge level.

The following contnets/stretch goals affect everyone (even those who miss out on Kickstarter and buy it later at a store):

50 highly detailed 28mm miniatures
50 Scenic miniature bases
5 double sided full colour expandable game boards
60 page rules and scenario book
Vanguard and Strain stat cards
100+ full colour game counters

--plus--

"Every game will be upgraded with alternate sculpts of the troopers with alt female poses (with and without helmets on)." [these are not in addition to the 50 miniatures, merely alt poses will be added]

"The Infection markers in all games will be upgraded from paper to plastic.  If we hit this goal, we'll open a tool for these nifty tokens and improve Alabaster immensely for everyone! Also upgraded will be the Nano counter, which doubles as an objective marker."

"Every game gets [1 Barker Zosa figure], weapons specialist, with a choice of two weapons (Flame Thrower of Pulse Cannon)."

"Quarantine Campaign! Everyone gets a great downloadable campaign that will make use of all the additional figures released for the Biohazard set! Play a massive 70+ miniature battle climax!" [NOTE: Everyone will get access to the campaign, but you would need to source your own extra figures to field if you didn't back at Biohazard level]

At present, all other stretch items are for Biohazard level backers are are intrinsically tied to the Kickstarter campaign.

Given the fact that biohazard nets you 25 extra minis (12x vanguard, 12x Strain, 1 resin Kara), plus dice, I can't see any reason for USA backers (free shipping FTW!) to not upgrade to biohazard.

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Kamu
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
The gap between $75 and $100 in Zombicide was huge, and that didn't seem to affect the campaign at all.
 
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Rob Koch
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
Keegan,
I definitely agree with you. The resin version of Kara would be worth the extra $20 by itself. Once you add in the 24 extra models AND dice (we will get there for sure by Sunday). I can't see why with 20+ days left you wouldn't throw in. If you save $1/day from now until the completion of the funding you'd have that extra scratch.

You could sell a pint of blood or worse parts of your game collection!

Once I close my auction I'll have the money and be joining the group in at the $100 level. November is so far away.....


-Rob
 
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Charlie Theel
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
wickedwretch wrote:
The gap between $75 and $100 in Zombicide was huge, and that didn't seem to affect the campaign at all.


Didn't you get much more with a $100 pledge of Zombicide? Like 40+ extra minis and other things.

My point is just that there's no reason for me to pledge $85. All Stretch Rewards seem to be affecting the $100 level only, or every single copy. Why buck up $85 now for a product with no reviews and take that risk when I can get the same exact thing for $65 from an online retailer after release?

Currently, the 25 extra minis and dice are not enough to push me to pledge $100 and pay $35 more than I would pay from my LGS. I'm just pointing that out and I expect others may be in that camp as well.

The campaign is doing well (congrats) and nothing needs to be done, but I'm just wanted to put this out there and point to the fact that the Kickstarter could possibly bring in more people if my points were considered.
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Charlie Theel
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
robkoch2112 wrote:
Keegan,
I definitely agree with you. The resin version of Kara would be worth the extra $20 by itself. Once you add in the 24 extra models AND dice (we will get there for sure by Sunday). I can't see why with 20+ days left you wouldn't throw in. If you save $1/day from now until the completion of the funding you'd have that extra scratch.

You could sell a pint of blood or worse parts of your game collection!

Once I close my auction I'll have the money and be joining the group in at the $100 level. November is so far away.....


-Rob


It's not about saving $1 a day, it's about what else could I spend that money on to get full value. I also pointed out how it's not just a difference in $15, but $35.

I could buy a platoon of 15mm Sci-Fi miniatures to add to my Tomorrow's War factions, or I could buy any of the boardgames on my want list (The Ares Project, Loopin Louie, Wiz-War, etc.). Are 25 figures that I may only use 1 time (extra campaign mode) worth it, or would I rather have another entire game that I will get many plays out of?

Let me put it another way, instead of paying $100 for the game with an extra 25 miniatures, I can pay $130 and get 2 copies of the game which includes 50 extra minis, dice, tokens, board sections, etc.

 
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Keegan Fink
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
Whether you pledge or not is your prerogative, and I can respect that, but I'm confused by your statement. You say you'd rather wait for reviews and shop at your LGS, but you prefaced that by saying you'd probably buy it online (obviously not through a LGS) for less money?

Seems like a conflict of interest whistle

As for game sales after Kickstarter, I don't doubt that you will be able to get copies online, but dont expect a price drop until the game has been out for a while. Even online retailers still stick close to the MSRP value for a few months after a hot new title comes out. If you're content to wait until November when the game is released, and then another 2-3 months until prices go down (assuming copies will still be circulating as we don't know the extent of the final print run), then by all means play the conservative card and wait out the pledge drive.



Also, you still haven't explained how you arrived at that $35 difference. Last I checked, the difference (for US residents) between the two levels is still only $15. 100-15=85
 
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Keegan Fink
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Re: Stretch Rewards Only At $100 Level
You might want to consider retitling this thread as its very misleading for other BGG users (as it has been pointed out above that stretch goals are NOT exclusively linked to the $100 level).
 
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Charlie Theel
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Lugburz wrote:
You might want to consider retitling this thread as its very misleading for other BGG users (as it has been pointed out above that stretch goals are NOT exclusively linked to the $100 level).


Good point, did not mean to mislead people at all. Title changed.

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Jake Rose
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Lugburz wrote:

Also, you still haven't explained how you arrived at that $35 difference. Last I checked, the difference (for US residents) between the two levels is still only $15. 100-15=85


He is assuming he can get the game once released for $65.
 
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Keegan Fink
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charlest wrote:
Lugburz wrote:
You might want to consider retitling this thread as its very misleading for other BGG users (as it has been pointed out above that stretch goals are NOT exclusively linked to the $100 level).


Good point, did not mean to mislead people at all. Title changed.



Thanks man! I really appreciate it. Honestly, I hope there are copies left over well after the game comes out because I understand and support your decision to wait. I have a few friends who can't pull the trigger right now but are looking to save and buy it down the road. I hope it turns out well and that you end up liking it. In the meantime, I would definitely recommend you getting WizWar! I just picked it up myself and the wife and I love it for a quick game in the evening.
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Charlie Theel
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Lugburz wrote:
Whether you pledge or not is your prerogative, and I can respect that, but I'm confused by your statement. You say you'd rather wait for reviews and shop at your LGS, but you prefaced that by saying you'd probably buy it online (obviously not through a LGS) for less money?

Seems like a conflict of interest whistle

As for game sales after Kickstarter, I don't doubt that you will be able to get copies online, but dont expect a price drop until the game has been out for a while. Even online retailers still stick close to the MSRP value for a few months after a hot new title comes out. If you're content to wait until November when the game is released, and then another 2-3 months until prices go down (assuming copies will still be circulating as we don't know the extent of the final print run), then by all means play the conservative card and wait out the pledge drive.



Also, you still haven't explained how you arrived at that $35 difference. Last I checked, the difference (for US residents) between the two levels is still only $15. 100-15=85


No conflic of interest, just misleading language in my other post. Miniature Market IS my LGS. It just so happens to be one of the biggest OLGS's as well.

I estimated $65 based on the MSRP of $89. Now that I think about it, I bet it will be cheaper than $65 and be closer to $55-$60. Miniature Market and Coolstuff Inc. typically discount games 30-40% off MSRP. It does not take 2-3 months for the price to drop, this is immediately upon release. Check out the price for Ogre Deluxe Edition ($65 compared to the $100 MSRP kickstarter price).

So assuming around a 35% off MSRP price, this game will cost around $58 which means my original points are even more valid. I can get two copies of the game for only $16 more than the $100 pledge level. Only incentive to pledge $100 is if the exclusive mini is really worth that much to me.

Even if Miniature Market/Coolstuff isn't your LGS, you get free shipping if you spend $100. So, this isn't a fringe case or anything.
 
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Keegan Fink
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charlest wrote:


No conflict of interest, just misleading language in my other post. Miniature Market IS my LGS. It just so happens to be one of the biggest OLGS's as well.

I estimated $65 based on the MSRP of $89. Now that I think about it, I bet it will be cheaper than $65 and be closer to $55-$60. Miniature Market and Coolstuff Inc. typically discount games 30-40% off MSRP. It does not take 2-3 months for the price to drop, this is immediately upon release. Check out the price for Ogre Deluxe Edition ($65 compared to the $100 MSRP kickstarter price).

So assuming around a 35% off MSRP price, this game will cost around $58 which means my original points are even more valid. I can get two copies of the game for only $16 more than the $100 pledge level. Only incentive to pledge $100 is if the exclusive mini is really worth that much to me.

Even if Miniature Market/Coolstuff isn't your LGS, you get free shipping if you spend $100. So, this isn't a fringe case or anything.


Point taken. Now I can see where your logic lies, and I suppose you have a good argument, however I (speaking personally here) appreciate supporting the creative team directly — even if the means I miss out on a possible price reduction down the road

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Hugh G. Rection
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charlest wrote:
Didn't you get much more with a $100 pledge of Zombicide? Like 40+ extra minis and other things.


The quantity of extra minis for the Zombicide Kickstarter were not known or advertised all at the beginning. They were added here and there, as specific over-funding levels were reached. I expect it will be the same with Sedition Wars. The more people hold back now, the slower the progress will be on the over-funding bonus path.
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Keegan Fink
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I suppose that the question you raise brings about a larger issue, namely the value of supporting a campaign directly versus waiting for online/local game shops. It's topic rife with divergent views, many valid. Hmmm...
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Charlie Theel
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Lugburz wrote:
I suppose that the question you raise brings about a larger issue, namely the value of supporting a campaign directly versus waiting for online/local game shops. It's topic rife with divergent views, many valid. Hmmm...


Good point. I think the discussion would also have different considerations if it wasn't 800% overfunded already. If it had not met its funding goal then I would have never posted this thread.
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Tunguska's CPA
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I think Biohazard ($100) was a "no-brainer" for me because I don't buy many games. It then becomes easy to look at that level, see what I'm getting and judge its value to be greater than its cost.

If I played/owned/bought a lot of games, I might feel different and approach more cautiously. I also trust McVey and Baxter and don't think they would risk their reputations lightly.
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I know if I back this I will definitely be getting in at the $100 mark, as I am seeing the possibility of using all those the extra miniatures for the actual game, and then with slightly adapted versions of the base game rules (like the ranges- "squares" become "inches", the cover mechanic from the main game, etc) to play larger skirmish-style games using all my terrain from other games like WH40K, etc.

Mike Mcvey has already stated that all the extra minis come with their own individual cards like the main game does, so that gets around that particular problem of using more than the normal "base-game" number of figures.
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Eric Nielsen
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I think the newly announced 210K stretch goals might help tip the scales for some people -- 4 more minis, two of them large 50mm based units. Brings the total biohazard bonus to 29 minis.
 
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I just wished they'd offer pre-painted minis, then I'd back.
 
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Keegan Fink
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Here is the current breakdown between the two pledge levels:

Quote:
Every normal set ($80) now includes:

• [51] highly detailed 28mm miniatures (inc. Barker below)
• [51] Scenic miniature bases
• 6 white dice
• 5 double sided full colour expandable game boards
• 60 page rules and scenario book
• Vanguard and Strain stat cards (63mm x 88mm)
• 100+ full colour game counters
• [Green] plastic [nano] counters
• Alternate Vanguard Trooper sculpt
• Alternate Strain Phase 1 Sculpts
• Barker Zosa — an elite heavy weapons Vanguard character!
• Downloadable campaign(s): "Quarantine Campaign" & "Lights Out Campaign"

[Note: Quarantine Campaign utilizes all 80 miniatures from the Kickstarter Biohazard pledge level, while the Lights Out Campaign has been designed for solo gameplay]

In addition to the above, every Biohazard set ($100) now ships with 80 miniatures:

• The 51 listed in the Quarantine box
• 1 resin limited edition Kara
• 12 additional Vanguard troopers
• 12 additional Strain [Phase 1 & Phase 2]
• 2 additional Phase 3 Brimstone
• 2 additional Phase 3 Scythe Witch
• 6 custom dice (3 per faction, Vanguard/Strain)
• 1 DVD Painting tutorial by Mike & Ali McVey!
 
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Julien Le Jeune
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Is it clear to anyone how much dices you would/could need at any given time?

I mean, are 3 vanguard dices enough to roll every vanguard attacks? Or are there sometimes attacks that require 4 dices and thus requiring to roll the 3 vanguard dices + 1 strain dice.

Not sure I'm being clear on this
 
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Michael Bang
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Shoogoo wrote:
Is it clear to anyone how much dices you would/could need at any given time?

I mean, are 3 vanguard dices enough to roll every vanguard attacks? Or are there sometimes attacks that require 4 dices and thus requiring to roll the 3 vanguard dices + 1 strain dice.

Not sure I'm being clear on this


Hey.

All attacks have a 'base value' of 3D6 so you never have to roll more than 3 dice at the same time. After rolling them you add the models attack modifier (+5 for the standard Vanguard and +6 for Kara Black I believe), but.. any '6' you roll of the original 3D6 are called 'Open Dice' or 'Exploding dice' and have to be re-rolled to boost your attack value. If you roll any '6' again they will also be re-rolled, so I guess in theory you would need infinite dice to be sure of never having to re-roll the same ones. I'm not mathematican but I'm guessing it's nearly impossible to roll 6/6/6 even twice in a row though.

I'm going for 6 Vanguard and 6 Strain dice myself ($10 for the extra 6 dices), I think that should be enough to cover 99% of any attack situation.

Hope that helps.
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Julien Le Jeune
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Cheers, you did more than helping, you sold me on extra dices too!
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