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Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Variants

Subject: Implementing the '2e Knock-Our Rules' in 1e? rss

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Vegard Eliassen Stillerud
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Drammen
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I see that in the 2nd edition of Descent, character deaths are replaced by knock-outs. Personally, I like this a lot better for several reasons. First of all because suicide runs would no longer be strategically wise. Also, I like it for thematic reasons. I simply don't find it plausible that dead characters just wake up in a nearby town ready for more action just seconds after he/she died.

The question is if there are a good way to implement similar rules in 1e? I do not kniow exactly how it works in 2e, but as it is not the same game I do not believe such knowledge is needed in order to discuss the implementation of a similar mechanic in first e.

One way to do it might be to copy the healing surges from the D%D adventure systems. Thus, if a character dies he/she is routed. When it is this players turn again, the player is revived with 50% of his/her max health. It would probably make the game more challening to the heroes as well.

What do you think?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Elk Ridge
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The rules as have been revealed so far is when a Hero is reduced to 0 hits, he is laid on his side knocked out. On the Hero's next turn, all he can do is stand up. I don't think it's been revealed how many HP he recovers, but my guess is it will be full HP/Fatigue (like how in 1st Ed when a hero dies, he recovers at full health). It might be like D&D where it's half, but who knows.

A Hero can also spend half a turn 'reviving' another Hero. This can translate into either a revive mechanic in 1st Ed or in a number of Movement Points, which I think I prefer. I would say 4MP and you can revive a hero. If you prefer the former option, then it would be something like:
- New Action, Revive: A hero can move or attack, and revive a downed hero.
- Modify Action, Ready: A hero can move or attack or revive a downed hero, and place an Order token.

Honestly, I think it will be easy to retrofit a lot of different mechanics from 2nd Ed into 1st Ed.

-shnar
 
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Josh Perry
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Coral Springs
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If I recall you roll dice when you stand back up to show how much wound and fatigue you recover.
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Ed Rozmiarek
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Liberty Hill
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From the May 10th update: (My bold)
Quote:
Unless a knocked out hero is revived by an adjacent ally, he can perform only one action on his turn, and that is to stand back up (to be clear, this constitutes a knocked out hero's entire turn). Such a hero rolls two red power dice, recovering damage equal to the (heart) rolled and fatigue equal to the (surge) rolled. Of course, the monster that knocked him down in the first place may have something to say about this, and a newly revived hero is vulnerable to being knocked right back down again...so it’s important to have the backup of nearby allies.
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Jeremy Lennert
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The knockout and reinforcement rules that have been previewed for second edition have me convinced that the strategic picture is going to be very different from the one in first edition. First edition's combat is mostly about attrition, with the last side standing the winner. Second edition looks like it's all about action denial, with reducing someone's health to 0 just being another way of making them lose actions, and victory conditions that don't depend directly on fighting.

You could easily port the knockout rules into 1e and have the rules still "work" in the sense that you could understand and follow them, but I think it would pretty thoroughly destroy game balance. Do the heroes still lose conquest when they die? If so, then things look the same as before except that the heroes lose a bunch of actions recovering from knockouts, which will swing things heavily in the overlord's favor (especially if they don't get full health and fatigue after a revival). If not, then how does the overlord win? Running the heroes out of conquest is his only victory condition in the normal rules.



I'm actually not convinced yet that these rules will be balanced even in second edition. I'm worried that a major strategy is going to be to do enough damage to the enemy side that they don't get to do anything on their turn (e.g. the heroes all spend their turns standing back up), then knock them all down again the next round, so they don't actually get to do anything while 1 figure runs around and completes your actual quest objective. Conversely, we may find that dealing damage is a sucker's game, because it costs you more actions than it denies your opponent, so everyone just stops attacking entirely and spends all their actions completing objectives as fast as possible.

Obviously, I haven't played yet, so I could be entirely wrong--but I also haven't seen anything in the previews that would indicate that the designers have solved these problems.
 
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Michael Hancock-Parmer
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Bloomington
Indiana
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You'll see in the general fora a post I made regarding a more general overhaul of the Rulebook and Quest Guide to turn Descent into 1.5 edition, something between First and Second. My goal is to make Descent 1 play more like Descent 2 using only materials in Descent 1 and allowing the same speed of play while keeping the (to my opinion) greater depth and characterization possible with Descent 1.
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"Every Board Game I Reach Is Dead"
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Scarborough
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I have also used KO rules in the 1.5 Edition rules I've been working on.

In my hybrid rules Heroes that are reduced to 0 Stamina in an encounter or dungeon are Knocked Out. They are placed prone and the Overlord immediately receives Conquest Tokens equal to the Hero's value as normal (the Overlord still accumulates and uses Conquest in my 1.5 rules). The Hero will have to take a Recover Action to continue play.

When a Hero Recovers he must either choose to regain all of his lost Stamina and Fatigue, in which case he loses half his money rounded down, or just roll 2 Green dice, gaining Stamina equal to hearts rolled and Fatigue equal to Surges rolled. If the Hero Recovers himself he cannot take another action that turn (in my rules Heroes normally take 2 actions a turn). However a conscious Hero may also spend an action to Recover an adjacent KOed Hero, in which case the Recovered Hero picks out of the choices above but still gets 2 actions in his own next turn as normal.

In my rules if all heroes are KOed at the same time the Heroes automatically abort the quest and the Overlord immediately scores all Conquest point values for all heroes again (giving him a good boost)!

However its worth noting that I've made several other changes to my system, including shortening the campaign down to no more then 20 plays (usually less), removed Glyphs, Heroes advance via money (not conquest) and changed Hero turns to be virtually the same as 2nd edition's, to name just a few!

This means it may seem odd outside the context of the other changes I have made, but that's what I have done! goo
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