jakub praibis
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Sorry, it's been a while I played this particular card. Yesterday when I was thining about it I came to the old question which I don't think I've ever heard officially answered.

An enemy attacks, shadow card is revealed, you play A Light in the Dark before attack resolution step, the enemy moves to the staging area but how about the damage?
 
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Allan Clements
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Re: A Light in the Dark
It still hits you. The attack has been declared, so must resolve unless the enemy itself leaves play. It does not matter where the enemy ends up otherwise.

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jakub praibis
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Thanks. What got me asking was the ruling about Son of Arnor, I thought I remembered that if you move the enemy to a different player the attack hits the newly engaged player (which would be in contrary to this ruling). But maybe I just remembered wrong.
 
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Pawel Gutowski
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Re: A Light in the Dark
What about killing enemy with sneak attack + gandalf? Enemy will go to new zone (discard pile). This is quite similar to a light in the dark situation.
 
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Tony Fanchi
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Re: A Light in the Dark
guciomir wrote:
What about killing enemy with sneak attack + gandalf? Enemy will go to new zone (discard pile). This is quite similar to a light in the dark situation.
If you kill the enemy, the attack ends without it dealing any damage, but so long as the enemy is still in play, its attack will resolve once you start the attack.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: A Light in the Dark
jpraibis wrote:
Thanks. What got me asking was the ruling about Son of Arnor, I thought I remembered that if you move the enemy to a different player the attack hits the newly engaged player (which would be in contrary to this ruling). But maybe I just remembered wrong.
I thought the Son of Arnor just moved an enemy when he was deployed? In which case, there's no Shadow Card in question yet (until the combat part of Encounters).

-shnar
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Re: A Light in the Dark
shnar wrote:
I thought the Son of Arnor just moved an enemy when he was deployed? In which case, there's no Shadow Card in question yet (until the combat part of Encounters).

-shnar

But you can Sneak Attack him into play during combat.
 
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Andy Mills
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Re: A Light in the Dark
guciomir wrote:
What about killing enemy with sneak attack + gandalf? Enemy will go to new zone (discard pile). This is quite similar to a light in the dark situation.

Except that the staging area is an in-play zone, while the discard pile is not.
 
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Giulio Virzo
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Kamakaze wrote:
It still hits you. The attack has been declared, so must resolve unless the enemy itself leaves play. It does not matter where the enemy ends up otherwise.


Oh my god, I sense I've made some big mistake in properly understanding of rules about this game...

Can someone point me where exactly by all means is written that, once an attack is declared, even if the attacker will be moved to staging area, I must still face the damage and at least the "declare defender" step?

Somewhere in this same forum I answered probably in a wrong manner about this specific card, since I was (actually, I am...) totally sure that enemies moved to staging area by a card effect cease both to result engaged and any their attack will be not resolved... My bad.

Waiting for proper and hopefully definitive clarification.
 
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jakub praibis
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Glad this can clear it up for more than just me.
 
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Allan Clements
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Well I don't know what the official ruling is, but that is how I see it.

If you play A Light in the dark before deciding to resolve an enemy's attack then you do not have to fight it. But basically once you choose an enemy and assign a defender, the attack continues even if the enemy moves elsewhere in play.

This is similar to if a player is defending with Wandering Took and gives it to another player, the Took is still defending the attack even though it has moved.
 
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Giulio Virzo
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Re: A Light in the Dark
PBrennan wrote:
Ahh, I was scratching my head trying to remember where that might have been ruled on before. AFAIK, if an enemy moves back to the staging area, it's no longer engaged with you, it no longer does its attack sequence with you. It's different if an enemy moves to another player. Then it continues attacking.

What I'm trying to understand is exactly this: when an Enemy attacks me (especially due to coming up as a Shadow Card resolved as putting him in combat against me - hope I'm expressing properly, pardon my bad english), if it for any reason will be moved to the Staging Area before I resolve his whole attack procedure (so I may have declared a defender also, or have the right to play action before that choice), it's still attacking and dealing damage to me??? Where is it written...???

After all, game's really clear about "declare defenders" step: it clearly state that, if a defender is assigned against an attacker and for any reason will be removed before attack resolves, the attack is always considered "undefended" so a hero must take all incoming damage. Maybe for someone that makes no sense, but I figured something like "ok, if I move an attacker to the staging area, it will not be considered attacking anymore" at least until next engagement step or any card effect.

I like this game very much and now I fear I'm actually playing in a wrong manner, at least until someone won't clarify that precise question.

On top of all, italian version isn't so excellent in translation (some cards are missing CRITICAL WORDINGS like Riddermark's Finest, I was aware of this only by finding certain FAQs and reading here and there...!!!)... :-(
 
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Allan Clements
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Well in the rules it states that the current player becomes the "active" player and resolves all combat first. From then on it refers to the active player as the one who has to declare defenders and take undefended damage on their heroes.

Each enemy engaged with the active player makes one attack, if the enemy is moved to the staging area before the attack begins then no attack is started.

But once the enemy has reached step 1 of combat, only removing the enemy from play will stop the attack. Moving the enemy around has no effect on the active player resolving the combat (in my opinion)

There is nothing in the rules that support the notion of an enemy only being able to resolve an attack when engaged with a player, being engaged with a player just means that an enemy will start an attack against you.

Feint (which prevent an enemy from attacking) does not work if you play it after step 1 of an enemy attack, since the enemy is already attacking. If moving the enemy to the staging area stopped the attack, then feint would also stop the attack at any point during the attack steps.

The combat rules do state that if a defender is removed from combat before it is resolved it is considered undefended, but since this specifically refers to "removed from combat" this is not the same as "changed owner" or "changed location". None of those things remove a character from combat (e.g. the Wandering Took remains defending the combat, even if he is switched to another player).

Removed from combat is triggered by specific card effects which remove characters from combat, or if a character leaves play.
 
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jakub praibis
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Re: A Light in the Dark
I don't find your reasoning with Feint adequate; those are quite different things, and the word "cannot" has been given a lot of attention in the rules and FAQ (also in conjunction with Feint).

Can anyone dig up the ruling about Son of Arnor. I really feel strongly about remembering that Sneaking Son of Arnor and thus switching the player doesn't stop the attack but it will resolve undefended with the newly engaged player. This would have to make one believe that moving an enemy to the staging area would remove the target of the attack. However, I will take all these back if the official ruling of the Son of Arnor case (and I am positive there has been one) were otherwise than I stated.

Also, are you sure about the Took?
 
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Allan Clements
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Re: A Light in the Dark
jpraibis wrote:

Also, are you sure about the Took?

Yes.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/8484155#8484155

I think the question of this thread depends on whether the act of moving an enemy to the staging area is defined to end the attack resolution or not (Regardless of the ruling on the Son of Arnor, since obviously the attack still goes ahead if the attack started and then moved players)
 
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Andy Mills
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Re: A Light in the Dark
For what it's worth, you are remembering the SA/SoA ruling correctly, although it didn't make it into the most recent FAQ, so I don't know what that means.
 
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jakub praibis
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Re: A Light in the Dark
manydills wrote:
For what it's worth, you are remembering the SA/SoA ruling correctly, although it didn't make it into the most recent FAQ, so I don't know what that means.

So an enemy moving from player A to player B during the attack hits the player B. This really leads me to believe an enemy moving from player A to staging area hits nothing. But maybe I am imagining the logic here.
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Allan Clements
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Does this also mean that if I attack an enemy engaged to me, then move it into the staging area that my attack no longer occurs?

I think it still continues, and the same should apply to enemy attacks.

Also what would happen if I revealed a shadow card for an enemy, then moved it to the staging area, then moved it back to engage me. Would it attack again, continue it's attack, or what exactly?
 
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jakub praibis
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Oh, these are surprisingly not very good points. Why would you move an enemy when you attack it? And why would it be different? Why indeed do you ask this question, yes it is similar (albeit probably never to be used) example but that shall not answer the original question.

And the second question is easy to answer. If you engage an enemy after its turn to attack (as stated in the rulebook) it doesn't attack anymore. It's a well-used combo of the Sneaky Son of Arnor.
 
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Allan Clements
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Well then what you are saying is that moving the enemy to the staging area interrupts and ends that enemies attack, and that enemy has used up it's attack for that turn even if it is re-engaged by a player.

If I moved an enemy into and out of the staging area before I chose to resolve it's attack, it would still be required to attack me. However if I do it during it's attack, it is somehow interrupted by an undefined effect?

It does not matter that I would never do such silly things as moving enemies around like this, but what happens when this is done still matters as this determines whether or not I would consider doing such a thing.


If an enemy was created that could attack a player from the staging area, moving it in and out of the staging area would of course NOT interrupt it's attack. I fail to see why this would be different for normal enemies, nothing in the rules states that an enemies attack is interrupted when moved into the staging area.



 
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jakub praibis
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Re: A Light in the Dark
True. And I am not pretending I know the official answer. But the position of the enemy clearly matters - as changing the player effects the result. That's what got my argument started again. You said once the attack (of the enemy) begins, the only thing that can end it is "death" of the enemy. But even though the Arnor example doesn't end the attack, it meddles with its target - thus the "position" of the enemy still clearly matters not only when the attack begins but also when it ceases.
 
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Patrick Brennan
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Official Response

From Nate:

Light in the Dark does not cancel or stop an attack that is already in the process of resolution. The only step in which it is mentioned the enemy needs to be engaged with the attacked player is step 1. So, in order to prevent an attack, Light in the Dark must be played on an engaged enemy prior to choosing to resolve its attack during step 1.

There you go. So there's no point playing it mid-combat as it doesn't stop the attack.

OP, could you append the thread header with " - official response received." Thx.
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jakub praibis
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Re: A Light in the Dark
Thanks! I am sending my love to Norway.

Side note, the response is just as you thought it would. Does it change the ruling about the Sneaky Arnor? It would seem when you move the enemy it still hits the originally engaged player.
 
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Andy Mills
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The SA/SoA ruling was likewise official, so I'm guessing it hasn't changed, but I concede that it's possible, as that ruling didn't make it into the FAQ.
 
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jakub praibis
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Thanks again! I perfectly understand the ruling of A Light in the Dark now, seems simple and clear. But it does puzzle me when moving enemy in this case does nothing to the attack, why should it be different with the Sneaky Arnor. Is it just me or do others also find it "strange"?
 
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