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Subject: So I haven't yet watched Prometheus... rss

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David Kahnt
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いい竹やぶだ!

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Haven't watched it. Don't intend to.
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I went to see it on Opening night, and liked it. I think some of the complaints come from the fact that the movie is not traditionally plotted and that people were expecting something else - perhaps something more "Space Opera" or something more "Alien"-y.

But. Yeah, I can see how some people may not like it, and that's okay.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Boodley wrote:
I went to see it on Opening night, and liked it. I think some of the complaints come from the fact that the movie is not traditionally plotted and that people were expecting something else - perhaps something more "Space Opera" or something more "Alien"-y.

But. Yeah, I can see how some people may not like it, and that's okay.


In my experience they are mostly complaining that it's full of plot holes and supposed scientists and smart people doing really dumb things, not that it was too slow or too fast or too scary or not scary enough.

I enjoyed the movie, but I agree with them. There were many things holding it back from being more than just ok, and they can't be explained away by how hard the SF was, or how alien-y it was.
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Matthew M
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I haven't found a ton of plot holes. Some elements could have been developed more, but that's not the same. There is plenty of room for supposed holes to be explained in a reasonably plausible way, IMO.

And people doing really dumb things is always plausible.

-MMM
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Paul DeStefano
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It was OK.

There's a few great movies in there, we just don't get to see any of them.
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I saw it at the theater and watched 3 other movies at home On Demand the same week. Prometheus was the best of the bunch. The other three were in descending order: John Carter on Mars, Redtails and Act of Valor. The last two being in a near tie for terrible.
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A beautifully shot movie glossing over a vapid, senseless screenplay. If you're one of the people that can turn off your critical brain and enjoy a movie just for what it is, more power to you. But there is so much about this movie that is bad. It wants so much to be deep and clever and ask Big Questions, but it doesn't really. And of the few answers it gives, it makes no sense. Just a few things off the top of my head:

SPOILERS!

1. That's one hell of a coincidence that the DNA that engineer is spreading at the beginning of the movie would end up with humans that look like him X years later

2. Why assume those five stars will send us back to the people who created us? And why would you give us the address to a weapons installation?

3. Why do most of the people on the ship have no idea where they're going?

4. Why would you remove your helmet on a foreign planet when you could either be infected by something, or infect something with your germs? How stupid are these scientists? A: Pretty damned stupid

5. How could two scientists get lost when they're in direct contact with someone on the ship who can see exactly where they are?

6. Why would two people who freak out on seeing 2000 year old corpses suddenly want to get snuggly with the creepy non-humanoid-at-all aliens?

7. Why does nobody care that David is activating all this alien technology?

8. Why does David infect the stupid hot male scientist? I know, it's because Weyland wants eternal life, but how does doing this help?

9. How does David know ahead of time that stupid hot male scientist has impregnated somewhat attractive stupid female scientist?

10. If he wants to keep the alien that's growing inside of her, why drug her and then walk away, leaving her to other people to put in cryo? Why not take care of her himself?

11. Could the depiction of religion and faith BE any more simplistic?

12. Running in the shadow of rolling spaceship instead of to one side = stupid

13. That squid monster sure grew up fast, eh?

14. Hey! Guess what! There are more spaceships! Hm. Maybe there are more engineers or answers in the other temples. MAYBE they should have done some exploration...

ETC ETC ETC ad nauseum
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Paul DeStefano
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muzzynyc wrote:
A beautifully shot movie glossing over a vapid, senseless screenplay. If you're one of the people that can turn off your critical brain and enjoy a movie just for what it is, more power to you. But there is so much about this movie that is bad. It wants so much to be deep and clever and ask Big Questions, but it doesn't really. And of the few answers it gives, it makes no sense. Just a few things off the top of my head:


Answers!

1. No, that's planned that humans reach usable tech level by this level of evolution - its bioengineered.

2. There was years of research done by the team and Weyland was the only lunatic on Earth willing to believe them - they counldnt get govt funding.

2b. To draft or destroy us.

3. So they can't drop out for being on a fools errand before launch.

4. Overexcited kid on Christmas.

5. Silica storm ruined communications. That's why they had to get back fast with all the static going on.

6. That's WHY they went. If you visit your uncle for thanksgiving, you would shake his hand if he opened the door, and freak if he was dead.

7. Because it gets them closer to their goal. They know he knows the language.

8. They want to see if he becomes an Engineer.

9. Security cameras are everywhere.

10. So only those 'in the know' know what happened and he can appear inconspicuous.

11. Yes.

12. But instinctual.

13. No faster than any of the other growth we have seen prior established in the Alien series.

14. You find 50 pyramids. How many do you explore on day 1?

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ejmowrer wrote:
Boodley wrote:
I went to see it on Opening night, and liked it. I think some of the complaints come from the fact that the movie is not traditionally plotted and that people were expecting something else - perhaps something more "Space Opera" or something more "Alien"-y.

But. Yeah, I can see how some people may not like it, and that's okay.


In my experience they are mostly complaining that it's full of plot holes and supposed scientists and smart people doing really dumb things, not that it was too slow or too fast or too scary or not scary enough.

I enjoyed the movie, but I agree with them. There were many things holding it back from being more than just ok, and they can't be explained away by how hard the SF was, or how alien-y it was.


I've seen a lot of people complain about how the movie has no plot, though. Which isn't true, it's just not a very standard plot that these sort of SF stories tend to have. It's more "art house"-ish of a plot.

As for the "plot holes", I dunno. I figured they were setting up for a sequel. The DNA thing at the start was annoying, but not as annoying as Indiana Jones and his Nuke-proof Frigidaire.
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Paul DeStefano
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Boodley wrote:
The DNA thing at the start was annoying


Why?

I find that the most brilliant moment of the film.
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Geosphere wrote:
Boodley wrote:
The DNA thing at the start was annoying


Why?

I find that the most brilliant moment of the film.


It just went on a bit too long, and really didn't add that much. It wasn't the worst thing ever, but I'm not sure if that was supposed to be our "Life hitching a ride on a meteorite" moment that sparked all of life or not.


[A lot of the other science mistakes that are really stupid (Geologist convincing everybody to take their helmets off) can be sort of explained by peer/general pressure and lack of professionalism. I bet you some people padded their resumes as well.]
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Boodley wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
Boodley wrote:
The DNA thing at the start was annoying


Why?

I find that the most brilliant moment of the film.


It just went on a bit too long, and really didn't add that much. It wasn't the worst thing ever, but I'm not sure if that was supposed to be our "Life hitching a ride on a meteorite" moment that sparked all of life or not.


It's kind of the main plot point. Not sure how you could leave it out.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Boodley wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
Boodley wrote:
I went to see it on Opening night, and liked it. I think some of the complaints come from the fact that the movie is not traditionally plotted and that people were expecting something else - perhaps something more "Space Opera" or something more "Alien"-y.

But. Yeah, I can see how some people may not like it, and that's okay.


In my experience they are mostly complaining that it's full of plot holes and supposed scientists and smart people doing really dumb things, not that it was too slow or too fast or too scary or not scary enough.

I enjoyed the movie, but I agree with them. There were many things holding it back from being more than just ok, and they can't be explained away by how hard the SF was, or how alien-y it was.


I've seen a lot of people complain about how the movie has no plot, though. Which isn't true, it's just not a very standard plot that these sort of SF stories tend to have. It's more "art house"-ish of a plot.

As for the "plot holes", I dunno. I figured they were setting up for a sequel. The DNA thing at the start was annoying, but not as annoying as Indiana Jones and his Nuke-proof Frigidaire.


It had a plot for sure. That's not my issue with it.

Taking the helmets off was just as annoying as the Frigidaire for me. If they needed the helmets off for some reason, there are much better and more believable ways to get them off.
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M.
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Geosphere wrote:
Boodley wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
Boodley wrote:
The DNA thing at the start was annoying


Why?

I find that the most brilliant moment of the film.


It just went on a bit too long, and really didn't add that much. It wasn't the worst thing ever, but I'm not sure if that was supposed to be our "Life hitching a ride on a meteorite" moment that sparked all of life or not.


It's kind of the main plot point. Not sure how you could leave it out.


But, now that I think about it a bit, yeah. You're right. I dunno, I still think it was a tad too long for my taste. Not the whole scene, just the DNA in the water bit.
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Dave Riedy
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Geosphere wrote:
[q="muzzynyc"]A beautifully shot movie glossing over a vapid, senseless screenplay. If you're one of the people that can turn off your critical brain and enjoy a movie just for what it is, more power to you. But there is so much about this movie that is bad. It wants so much to be deep and clever and ask Big Questions, but it doesn't really. And of the few answers it gives, it makes no sense. Just a few things off the top of my head:


Answers!

1. No, that's planned that humans reach usable tech level by this level of evolution - its bioengineered.

Answer made up by you. No evidence in the movie. Also, wha?

2. There was years of research done by the team and Weyland was the only lunatic on Earth willing to believe them - they counldnt get govt funding.

Also not in movie.

2b. To draft or destroy us.

Draft? They supposedly hadnt decided to destroy us until we killed Jesus.

3. So they can't drop out for being on a fools errand before launch.

Also not in movie.

4. Overexcited kid on Christmas.

Or stupid movie logic, which seems more likely.

5. Silica storm ruined communications. That's why they had to get back fast with all the static going on.

Ah. Right.

6. That's WHY they went. If you visit your uncle for thanksgiving, you would shake his hand if he opened the door, and freak if he was dead.

What? These guys were used as Shaggy and Scooby. Dumb movie characters created only to be the first dead. They act illogically, inconsistently until they die.

7. Because it gets them closer to their goal. They know he knows the language.

He studied ancient languages. He suddenly understands the tech, plus he's mucking around behind their backs... the free rein David is given makes no sense but movie sense.

8. They want to see if he becomes an Engineer.

Not in movie. Plus, why would he think that?

9. Security cameras are everywhere.

Not in movie.

10. So only those 'in the know' know what happened and he can appear inconspicuous.

Not in movie. Huge logic leap.

11. Yes.

Agree to disagree.

12. But instinctual.

Except for the one character they want to live. Movie logic.

13. No faster than any of the other growth we have seen prior established in the Alien series.

Fair enough.

14. You find 50 pyramids. How many do you explore on day 1?

Several. I hover above them, scanning. Release those drones in several of them. Don't actually put boots on ground until I've tried to make fontact in a less invasive manner.

Your responses are similar to those I've read from most people who defend the movie -- layers of ideas that aren't in the script that explain away all the hand waving and stupid character choices.
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muzzynyc wrote:

1. No, that's planned that humans reach usable tech level by this level of evolution - its bioengineered.

Answer made up by you. No evidence in the movie. Also, wha?


No evidence in the movie? It's the entire premise of the movie!

Quote:

2. There was years of research done by the team and Weyland was the only lunatic on Earth willing to believe them - they counldnt get govt funding.

Also not in movie.


It is - you see it in the reaction Shaw receives from the other crew members when she explains the idea behind the expedition.

It can further be inferred by the fact that the entire expedition was funded by an old billionaire for his own very personal reasons. If a government would have funded them, they wouldn't have been on Prometheus.

Quote:
2b. To draft or destroy us.

Draft? They supposedly hadnt decided to destroy us until we killed Jesus.


This is the one I had the most issue with also. However the question depends on the captain's interpretation of the facility being correct. If it isn't actually a military compound (at least, not originally) then the cave paintings make more sense.

Quote:

7. Because it gets them closer to their goal. They know he knows the language.

He studied ancient languages. He suddenly understands the tech, plus he's mucking around behind their backs... the free rein David is given makes no sense but movie sense.


David works for "The Company". The Company has total reign over the expedition. The other folks are either in it for the money or for the discoveries and are there entirely at the pleasure of The Company.

Quote:
8. They want to see if he becomes an Engineer.

Not in movie. Plus, why would he think that?


I don't buy that answer myself. I don't think they had any idea what it would do, but knew that it would do something and wanted to test it on a human subject. Maybe it was Weyland's miracle cure!

Quote:

14. You find 50 pyramids. How many do you explore on day 1?

Several. I hover above them, scanning. Release those drones in several of them. Don't actually put boots on ground until I've tried to make fontact in a less invasive manner.


You're there to find a cure for a dying man. You don't have that kind of time.


I don't feel a compelling need for the "not in movie" critiques to have been in the movie. You may as well ask why none of them went to the bathroom. Though I think they could have done a better job spelling out certain aspects of the plot, other things are better left out IMO. As long as there is enough wiggle room to come up with plausible explanations, the movie has done it's job. Explaining every little thing is not necessary.
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The main thing I had issue with in the movie was after the c-section, Noomi gets up and runs out as if it wasn't that big of a deal. How she could have gotten up after having her abdominal muscles severed is completely absurd. A friend of mine tried to explain it away saying "she was hopped up on painkillers, and in the future painkillers might cure wounds also" Riiighhhtt.
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Sorrellbo wrote:
The main thing I had issue with in the movie was after the c-section, Noomi gets up and runs out as if it wasn't that big of a deal. How she could have gotten up after having her abdominal muscles severed is completely absurd. A friend of mine tried to explain it away saying "she was hopped up on painkillers, and in the future painkillers might cure wounds also" Riiighhhtt.


Yeah...that was poorly conceived, and completely unnecessary. It would have been easy for her to pass out from the exertion and then come to back in the medical bay where Weyland has been awakened, drop some sci-fi jargon about mending her with nanites, and continue from there.
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muzzynyc wrote:


1. No, that's planned that humans reach usable tech level by this level of evolution - its bioengineered.

Answer made up by you. No evidence in the movie. Also, wha?

2. There was years of research done by the team and Weyland was the only lunatic on Earth willing to believe them - they counldnt get govt funding.

Also not in movie.


OK, these two points clearly defined major plot points in the movie .

You missed a bit.

Now, with things like the fact they couldn't get government funding referred to in several scenes (that's why Weyland is in charge, not the scientists), then you're obviously not going to pick up on anything subtle that's inferred OUTSIDE the scope of the movie.
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I'm not in the camp where I need to make up silly reasons to explain goofy character motivations for Prometheus. Sure, If I immerse myself into the movie I can infer and accept some out-of-movie logic to explain away plot or character inconsistencies. Or, I can look at it from a more macro level viewpoint and just accept the fact that it is the way it is because the screenwriters or editors decided that pacing and atmosphere trumped exposition scenes or plot logic. I choose to accept the latter.

The movie was really fun to watch for the time I spent in the cinema, but it mostly falls apart under any examination at multiple levels (character, plot and mythology).
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