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Railways of the World» Forums » Rules

Subject: redirection rss

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carmine sansalone
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Can I redirection an incomplete track blocked by an opponent, changing last tile? or if I can't continue it, remains incomplete?
 
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Brian Brokaw
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Yes, you are allowed to replace the last piece of an incomplete link as part of a build action. You must pay for the new piece (again) and it counts as one of the four (or five if you have Perfect Engineering) pieces you can build during your action.

If ANY links are incomplete at the end of a "Turn", they are all wiped clean and will have to be started anew.
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brokasaphasia wrote:
Yes, you are allowed to replace the last piece of an incomplete link as part of a build action. You must pay for the new piece (again) and it counts as one of the four (or five if you have Perfect Engineering) pieces you can build during your action.

If ANY links are incomplete at the end of a "Turn", they are all wiped clean and will have to be started anew.


I don't think that the rules say anything about being allowed to rebuild the last piece of track, I think it's just a popular house rule.
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Brian Brokaw
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True, it is not in the written rules, but stated by Keith Blume here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/819695#819695

To my knowledge, Glenn Drover has never clarified rules questions, so Keith's clarifications are all we have to go by.

Personally my group plays with a house rule that we disallow blocking. When someone starts a link, he's allowed to finish it. If you wanted to block them, you should have built the link yourself or consumed the hexes in advance of their move.
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Darian Tucker
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brokasaphasia wrote:
True, it is not in the written rules, but stated by Keith Blume here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/819695#819695

To my knowledge, Glenn Drover has never clarified rules questions, so Keith's clarifications are all we have to go by.

Personally my group plays with a house rule that we disallow blocking. When someone starts a link, he's allowed to finish it. If you wanted to block them, you should have built the link yourself or consumed the hexes in advance of their move.


That seems ultimately silly to me. It places the onus on players to second-guess what everyone's motives might be, and Railways of the World isn't really meant to be a bluffing game. If you're going to start a link between cities that are more than 4 hexes apart, you'd better be prepared to build around people to get into them. It was the only way I was able to prevent my father from winning the last game we played because he had to end up laying a crossing track and building the very long way around.

To answer the original question, there is no way to redirect your track in this game. The thread that was linked to in the above post is fruitless because it refers to the older edition of this game. Besides, the rules are somewhat helpful in that they specifically disallow redirecting other players' tracks. Although they make no statement on whether or not a player can redirect his own track, it should be obvious that you cannot because there are no tiles for it. Compare this to, say, Age of Steam, where it is legal to redirect track and there are both specific rules and tiles for doing so. In this game, the only way you can replace a track tile is by adding a crossing segment to it, so I would argue that you cannot redirect. Someone built in your way? Too bad. Build a crossing track and take the long way around.
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Brian Brokaw
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meh.
 
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Darian Tucker
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Hehe. Don't mind me too much. I just tend to place the emphasis on making sure the appropriate rule gets learned and not somebody's house rule or some suggestion from a designer that is six years old for an older edition of the game. It doesn't make it wrong and I don't begrudge you for your suggestion, but playing by the rules, you must either extend a current link or build a new link with a Build Track action. Redirecting your track does NOT technically extend your link, so I would find it to be disallowed based on those grounds. We have no specific ruling to base this off of, but comparing it to another game by the same designer gives us the only clue we have toward the intent here.
 
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Bob Melkus
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True that there is no written rule about redirecting, but since it was Keith as an official spokesman for the company who clarified it can be done, most people use this as a house rule. We do and so should you. It is way better than no-blocking at all, as sometimes two players want the same link because they both need it and not to block the other guy.

But most often redirecting is not needed. If you can't complete a link in one go, than the best option is to start from the city with less open exits and build towards the other city, not placing all 4 tiles in the first build but leaving yourself some room.

Let's say you want to build 6 tile link. You exit from the more important city with less exits and place only 3 tiles. That way it's much harder for other players to block you, because you're still leaving yourself room for maneuvering your track and the city you're going to has more than one entrance.
 
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Chris Hillery
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bobmelkus wrote:
But most often redirecting is not needed. If you can't complete a link in one go, than the best option is to start from the city with less open exits and build towards the other city, not placing all 4 tiles in the first build but leaving yourself some room.

Historical footnote: this technique wasn't permitted in Railroad Tycoon. The rules clearly stated that a "Build Track" action ended when the player placed 4 track tiles or reached another city. You had to fully commit if you were building a multi-action link.

However, the rules for Railways of the World were modified to add the all-important words "up to 4" in this section of the rulebook, and other parts of the paragraph were also changed accordingly. Given that most of the rules were copied verbatim, the fact that this one got changed almost certainly reflects a change of thought by the designers.
 
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Harald Torvatn
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Ceej wrote:

However, the rules for Railways of the World were modified to add the all-important words "up to 4" in this section of the rulebook, and other parts of the paragraph were also changed accordingly. Given that most of the rules were copied verbatim, the fact that this one got changed almost certainly reflects a change of thought by the designers.

I think it simply reflects an oversight in the original rules: The designer meant to say up to four hexes, but forgot to.

(Dont know who it was, but I remember a "semi-official" response which claimed "up to" was what was meant.
 
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William Simonitis
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brokasaphasia wrote:
Personally my group plays with a house rule that we disallow blocking. When someone starts a link, he's allowed to finish it. If you wanted to block them, you should have built the link yourself or consumed the hexes in advance of their move.


How does this work?

Does the building player have to announce where she is building when she lays the first track tile?

If so, isn't telegraphing your intentions something that is not in the rules?

And, for what it's worth, can the player change his mind once he's declared? For example, player A declares a two-turn build, but then player B builds somewhere threatening to pinch player A's 5-point cube. Can player A deliver that cube instead of completing his/her build?

In addition to this, if, for example, I build out of Paris towards Vienna, but my goal is really Prague, announcing to everyone that I'm building into Prague (and not Vienna) just might encourage another player to build into Prague beforehand and pinch that cube I had my eye on. Also, can another player take the "City Charter: Prague" card and keep me out or am I grandfathered in and allowed to build where I hadn't yet had the link (or even paid for it)?

If a player doesn't announce where he's building, how can another player know if he/she is blocking?
 
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LC
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How can you block a track in the first place? Are you talking about building out of a city where the player was headed?

 
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Brian Brokaw
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Datharaur wrote:
brokasaphasia wrote:
Personally my group plays with a house rule that we disallow blocking. When someone starts a link, he's allowed to finish it. If you wanted to block them, you should have built the link yourself or consumed the hexes in advance of their move.


How does this work?

Does the building player have to announce where she is building when she lays the first track tile?

If so, isn't telegraphing your intentions something that is not in the rules?

And, for what it's worth, can the player change his mind once he's declared? For example, player A declares a two-turn build, but then player B builds somewhere threatening to pinch player A's 5-point cube. Can player A deliver that cube instead of completing his/her build?

In addition to this, if, for example, I build out of Paris towards Vienna, but my goal is really Prague, announcing to everyone that I'm building into Prague (and not Vienna) just might encourage another player to build into Prague beforehand and pinch that cube I had my eye on. Also, can another player take the "City Charter: Prague" card and keep me out or am I grandfathered in and allowed to build where I hadn't yet had the link (or even paid for it)?

If a player doesn't announce where he's building, how can another player know if he/she is blocking?

All good questions, and all good reasons that our house rule is NOT suitable for highly competitive, tournament play (if such a think exists for this game with its sparse rulebook). We use it because it makes the game more friendly and inviting and fun.

1. When the partial link is built, the player announces his intended destination city and exit.
2. The rest of the players don't block that city exit.
3. The link builder must complete his link on the next action(s).
4. No other limitations on other players.
e.g. Other players can deliver cubes that the link builder clearly would like to have. Other players can build links to hamper major lines the link builder is clearly striving for. etc.

We understand that this house rule is not intended by the game's designers and probably causes more problems... but our experience has shown that link blocking USUALLY is a TORPEDO move that RARELY can be used to secure a win for yourself. It usually hampers BOTH players involved and allows the other non-involved players to profit. (Kingmaking is seen as "unfriendly" and "unfun" ;-)

If the blocking player really wanted to build a link through that map area, they should have started their link BEFORE the other player. Also, typically there are more profitable moves a link-blocker can make instead of the "DM". Our house rule just forces players to look for those more profitable moves!

I don't think everyone should follow this example. I'm just throwing it out there.

PS: I play this game with a couple of different groups of friends, and only one of the groups uses this house rule (mostly because one friend demands it).
 
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William Simonitis
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brokasaphasia wrote:

We understand that this house rule is not intended by the game's designers and probably causes more problems... but our experience has shown that link blocking USUALLY is a TORPEDO move that RARELY can be used to secure a win for yourself. It usually hampers BOTH players involved and allows the other non-involved players to profit. (Kingmaking is seen as "unfriendly" and "unfun" ;-)

Our little group here in NJ, which includes jmucchiello (among others), does play a little more assertively. As he mentioned (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/809639/baron-cards), we've made up our own baron cards. Mine happens to be the "links to the most cities" baron since I have, on more than one occasion (putting it mildly), built to connect two "random" cities in just such a way as to interfere with another player's planned build so as to get me my 5-6 points.

Anytime people suggest rebuilding the last hex tile or prohibiting blocking, it makes me just a little bit sad on the inside. Half of the fun in the game is doing little things that inconvenience the other players while helping you. Forcing another player to grab an extra bond to pay for an extra hex tile he hadn't accounted for is, for me, one of the little surprises that keeps each of us on our toes.

Interestingly enough, there is very little kingmaking in most of our games since few of us are really susceptible to table-talk (with one major exception, who we have all agreed to keep our mouths shut when he's playing). The general rule we play with is that it's the second-place player's "obligation" to stop the leader (barring outside factors such as a baron card); if he's not willing/able to do it, then it isn't going to happen (since we tend to even be "competitive" down to 4th vs 5th place). I guess it's just the culture of the group.
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Brian Brokaw
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Oh! I hadn't seen Joe's post before... that is an awesome idea! and I love the fact that YOU are a baron! I'll definitely bring this idea up with my friend Mark. He'd be "all over" making a Baron card in homage to himself! haha
 
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Joe Mucchiello
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Datharaur wrote:
Half of the fun in the game is doing little things that inconvenience the other players while helping you. Forcing another player to grab an extra bond to pay for an extra hex tile he hadn't accounted for is, for me, one of the little surprises that keeps each of us on our toes.

Only half of the fun?

We live for finding ways to advance our own positions in ways that destroy another player. Brian's post saying that torpedoing someone's else move is always a bad idea is so far off the mark.

Some asked about what blocking is. In the simple form, you see someone is building from X to Y and you block the last remaining exit in city Y before they arrive. Boring. Advanced blocking is more fun. The player places his last tile with the rail pointing south with the obvious intention of placing a curve to the west followed by two straight tiles. You run a rail from an unrelated city up into the hex below his last tile and then curve to east. Since there are no tiles with double curved tracks not overlapping, your opponent can only continue his track by going east (using the curve/curve track tile). Double points if their turn to the east leads to a location where the no new tracks can be laid (edge of the map, into a city the player doesn't want to link to, the tile already has two tracks on it and the player cannot add a third, etc).

Quote:
Our little group here in NJ, which includes jmucchiello (among others), does play a little more assertively.

I think we qualify as cutthroat.
 
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Darian Tucker
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jmucchiello wrote:
Datharaur wrote:
Half of the fun in the game is doing little things that inconvenience the other players while helping you. Forcing another player to grab an extra bond to pay for an extra hex tile he hadn't accounted for is, for me, one of the little surprises that keeps each of us on our toes.

Only half of the fun?

We live for finding ways to advance our own positions in ways that destroy another player. Brian's post saying that torpedoing someone's else move is always a bad idea is so far off the mark.

Some asked about what blocking is. In the simple form, you see someone is building from X to Y and you block the last remaining exit in city Y before they arrive. Boring. Advanced blocking is more fun. The player places his last tile with the rail pointing south with the obvious intention of placing a curve to the west followed by two straight tiles. You run a rail from an unrelated city up into the hex below his last tile and then curve to east. Since there are no tiles with double curved tracks not overlapping, your opponent can only continue his track by going east (using the curve/curve track tile). Double points if their turn to the east leads to a location where the no new tracks can be laid (edge of the map, into a city the player doesn't want to link to, the tile already has two tracks on it and the player cannot add a third, etc).

Quote:
Our little group here in NJ, which includes jmucchiello (among others), does play a little more assertively.

I think we qualify as cutthroat.


Indeed. This narrowly won me my last game. Besides, it evokes so much of the theme, wherein railways would build in the most haphazard fashions to spend as much government money as possible while simultaneously trying to prevent their competitors from utilizing the same area to build track.
 
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George Parker
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The "rules" section for this game is lonnnnng. So if I just missed this being answered, my apologies.

Do tiles placed adjacent to cities have to connect? For example, can you build track that runs right beside a city, but doesn't connect? It seems legal, but you are in essence blocking a track (the track leaving the city). I had an opportunity to do this last night, therefore blocking the last available connection for a city and keeping another other player from connecting. We decided it was legal (mean...but legal!). Were we right?

Thanks in advance for you answers. I just started playing this game over the last couple weeks and really enjoy it!
 
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texasgeoker wrote:
The "rules" section for this game is lonnnnng. So if I just missed this being answered, my apologies.

Do tiles placed adjacent to cities have to connect? For example, can you build track that runs right beside a city, but doesn't connect? It seems legal, but you are in essence blocking a track (the track leaving the city). I had an opportunity to do this last night, therefore blocking the last available connection for a city and keeping another other player from connecting. We decided it was legal (mean...but legal!). Were we right?

Thanks in advance for you answers. I just started playing this game over the last couple weeks and really enjoy it!


You can run track adjacent to a city without connecting, as long as you follow all the regular rules for track placement (must connect to 'a' city at the end of the turn, etc). However, doing so does not actually block the entrance to that city. A number of the track tiles include crossings - all someone else needs to do to connect to the 'blocked' entrance is find the appropriate track tile that lets them build out while having the other line maintain your connection. If you want to actually block the connection, you must build into it yourself.
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George Parker
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4100xpb wrote:
texasgeoker wrote:
The "rules" section for this game is lonnnnng. So if I just missed this being answered, my apologies.

Do tiles placed adjacent to cities have to connect? For example, can you build track that runs right beside a city, but doesn't connect? It seems legal, but you are in essence blocking a track (the track leaving the city). I had an opportunity to do this last night, therefore blocking the last available connection for a city and keeping another other player from connecting. We decided it was legal (mean...but legal!). Were we right?

Thanks in advance for you answers. I just started playing this game over the last couple weeks and really enjoy it!


You can run track adjacent to a city without connecting, as long as you follow all the regular rules for track placement (must connect to 'a' city at the end of the turn, etc). However, doing so does not actually block the entrance to that city. A number of the track tiles include crossings - all someone else needs to do to connect to the 'blocked' entrance is find the appropriate track tile that lets them build out while having the other line maintain your connection. If you want to actually block the connection, you must build into it yourself.


I also just found this thread that confirms your comment. Thanks for your quick reply.
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