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Subject: iPad alien frontier = greed rss

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Kevin Gillette
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Is it just me or is anybody else think alien frontier for the iPad is all about greed. The gage is already made just sell it on the iTunes site like everybody else. We all could be enjoying this game right now.

Kevin
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Pete Sellers
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thegillettefive wrote:
Is it just me or is anybody else think alien frontier for the iPad is all about greed. The gage is already made just sell it on the iTunes site like everybody else. We all could be enjoying this game right now.

Kevin


It's already made?

I was thinking about Kickstarting it, because I love the physical game, but if it's already done, why Kickstart it?

That does seem like a cash grab, if that's the case.
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Brian Schroth
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A prototype is ready. It is by no means done.

I can't really bring myself to care- Clever Mojo is already on my shit list due to their religious belief that people shouldn't be able to shop at the stores they like to shop at.
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Jeff Lingwall
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I think if you hunt around the forums you'll see a quite different story. There's a difference between having an app to demo and a polished game. A big difference. As I understand, it's kickstart to gt the game soon versus much later. I'll probably support for that reason.
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Pete Sellers
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jlingwal wrote:
I think if you hunt around the forums you'll see a quite different story. There's a difference between having an app to demo and a polished game. A big difference. As I understand, it's kickstart to gt the game soon versus much later. I'll probably support for that reason.


And that makes much more sense.

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Kevin Gillette
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They have been showing off this game and demoing it. They don't need a good amount to polish it. If it needs polish they can update it after they sell it on iTunes. I am sorry but this one rubs me the wrong way. They are abusing kickstarter.

Kevin
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Ralph T
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Kickstarter was meant to be abused. The most successful Kickstarter projects are abusing Kickstarter.

[quote]I can't really bring myself to care- Clever Mojo is already on my shit list due to their religious belief that people shouldn't be able to shop at the stores they like to shop at.[/quote]
What does this mean?
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Tim
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thegillettefive wrote:
Is it just me or is anybody else think alien frontier for the iPad is all about greed. The gage is already made just sell it on the iTunes site like everybody else. We all could be enjoying this game right now.

Kevin


Hrm. They were pretty clear in the campaign notes that the purpose was so they could hire the dev team full time. $15k for a video game developer full time isn't exactly a money grab. It's barely enough for one person to live on full time for a year, let alone a team of people...

Seems there's a rash of people who think everything in life is free and nobody deserves to eat for their work. It's pretty hard to determine what's really needed for a project of this scope unless you've done it yourself. I don't want to single out the OP, it's something I see all over the place. If you want to have a debate whether people should starve for their dreams, like has always been done in the past -- or go witha new model where you can get paid while you struggle, that's an interesting debate to have, but complaining about someone who wants to pay their workers a fare wage to secure more of their time... I imagine the developer said, "Hey. I'm giving you every moment of free time I have, but I have a real job where I have to keep the lights on. I can't keep doing this gratis. It's going to be a lot longer before I can get this thing wrapped up unless I can dedicate myself to it full time, and I can't do that without a paycheck. Damn family insists on eating like 3 times a day!"

Best of luck to Clever Mojo, I say... I'm not backing the project, because I already burned out on the game and sold off my copy, but best of luck bringing it to the folks who want it.
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Chris Ferejohn
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BagelManB wrote:
A prototype is ready. It is by no means done.

I can't really bring myself to care- Clever Mojo is already on my shit list due to their religious belief that people shouldn't be able to shop at the stores they like to shop at.


Umm, care to explain wtf you are talking about?
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Kevin Gillette
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I thinking of the guy that made mine craft he sold it at a decent price and polished it himself and now is reaping the rewards. Make a product and sell it don't make a product say you need to make it better then we will sell it.

Kevin
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Robert Forrest
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thegillettefive wrote:
I thinking of the guy that made mine craft he sold it at a decent price and polished it himself and now is reaping the rewards. Make a product and sell it don't make a product say you need to make it better then we will sell it.

Kevin


The difference is the Mincraft guy has the skills to do it himself. Clever Mojo are hiring a/some programer(s).
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Tim
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Edward J Grug III wrote:
thegillettefive wrote:
I thinking of the guy that made mine craft he sold it at a decent price and polished it himself and now is reaping the rewards. Make a product and sell it don't make a product say you need to make it better then we will sell it.

Kevin


The difference is the Mincraft guy has the skills to do it himself. Clever Mojo are hiring a/some programer(s).


The guy who made Minecraft also stumbled bass ackward into a cult hit. I downloaded "Bohnanza" on the iOS the other day and noticed there were only 4 reviews. The bottom on this board game conversion market is going to drop out quick, because I don't think that many people are playing these games. The few thousand people who frequent BGG are not enough to support video game development. Stories like Minecraft are few and far between, and game development costs more and more money.

You can't look at an edge-case/outlier like Minecraft and then hold everyone to that standard, though.

More often than not, they're paying development houses thousands upon thousands of dollars to put out a product, which immediately gets a rating of "1: Ugh. No multiplayer async? Gawd. Totally ripped off of 99c! This sucks!" and 6 months to a year of work are down the drain.
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Steve Duff
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cferejohn wrote:
BagelManB wrote:
I can't really bring myself to care- Clever Mojo is already on my shit list due to their religious belief that people shouldn't be able to shop at the stores they like to shop at.


Umm, care to explain wtf you are talking about?


Gamesalute.
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
cferejohn wrote:
BagelManB wrote:
I can't really bring myself to care- Clever Mojo is already on my shit list due to their religious belief that people shouldn't be able to shop at the stores they like to shop at.


Umm, care to explain wtf you are talking about?


Gamesalute.


Oh, that one word clears it up, except for the fact that it totally doesn't. Clever mojo won't sell through game salute? Clever Mojo only sells through game salute? And how is religion involved? Or was "religion" just internet code for "made an arbitrary decision that I don't understand"?
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Tim
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cferejohn wrote:
Or was "religion" just internet code for "made an arbitrary decision that I don't understand"?


My vote is for "made a business decision based on an agreement that they thought would best benefit their distribution and increase profit." because I think... I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.
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tofarley wrote:
cferejohn wrote:
Or was "religion" just internet code for "made an arbitrary decision that I don't understand"?


My vote is for "made a business decision based on an agreement that they thought would best benefit their distribution and increase profit." because I think... I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.


No seriously, I do want someone to explain the gripe to me. I feel like I'm being associated with a position and I don't even understand the issue.
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cferejohn wrote:
tofarley wrote:
cferejohn wrote:
Or was "religion" just internet code for "made an arbitrary decision that I don't understand"?


My vote is for "made a business decision based on an agreement that they thought would best benefit their distribution and increase profit." because I think... I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.


No seriously, I do want someone to explain the gripe to me. I feel like I'm being associated with a position and I don't even understand the issue.


I don't have a horse in this race anyways. I'm bowing out. Not even sure why I clicked on this link other than it's like not being able to turn away from a train wreck.
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cferejohn wrote:
tofarley wrote:
cferejohn wrote:
Or was "religion" just internet code for "made an arbitrary decision that I don't understand"?


My vote is for "made a business decision based on an agreement that they thought would best benefit their distribution and increase profit." because I think... I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.


No seriously, I do want someone to explain the gripe to me. I feel like I'm being associated with a position and I don't even understand the issue.


I believe they distribute with game salute, which is the gripe. I assume 'religious' was meant in a 'strictly adhering to' sort of definition, with some potentially disrespectful but historically accurate undertones of 'pushing what they want on other people.'
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tofarley wrote:
I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.


So if someone does not put themselves at risk they do not deserve a profit and should just work for free???


I will let your boss know!
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Rob "Bodhi" Wolff
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I'm all for kickstarter, and angel-funding new projects. Hell, my bandmate and I talked about using it next year to help kickstart a tour.

But the thing that struck me about the Alien Frontier app was the price-point for entry, the reward, and the disparity with other projects.

Since they don't offer a "For 5 bucks you'll get the app when it is released" option, they're coming off as gouging the angel-backer market. Many other kickstarter projects have an entry-point which is essentially a pre-order of the product, available at retail cost. Pay early, guaranteeing the sale, and it helps get the project moving. 5 bucks buys you the $5 app. For 10 bucks you get the band's $10 CD when it is released. And so forth.

But asking for 10 bucks, for 5 buck app, and the 100 percent markup buys you your name on a screed of credits? That doesn't strike me as reasonable.

Yet this is the only entry-point available for those of us who want to show our support. If I want to help, that's my only option. At 100 percent markup!

Without a straight-up "entry-point = pre-order ; thanks for your support" option, I found myself walking away from this kickstarter project without remorse.

Is it greed? Is it poor tier-design? Am I expecting too much from a kickstarter startup?

Your call.

All I know is, in a year's time if I try to kickstart my band's tour and I tell you that $20 bucks buy you a copy of our CD and your name on a wall of scrawl somewhere online, you are free to kick my harpist in the ass for signing off on some really bad tier-design!
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cferejohn wrote:
tofarley wrote:
cferejohn wrote:
Or was "religion" just internet code for "made an arbitrary decision that I don't understand"?


My vote is for "made a business decision based on an agreement that they thought would best benefit their distribution and increase profit." because I think... I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.


No seriously, I do want someone to explain the gripe to me. I feel like I'm being associated with a position and I don't even understand the issue.

Game Salute is a distributor for publishers that only want their games available at brick & mortar shops for full retail, rather than deeply discounted online. So, if a publisher goes with Game Salute, your options are either to buy it from Game Salute or buy it from your local retailer, both of which would likely be at MSRP.

I'm guessing the original gripe here is because he wants to buy games at a deep discount from an online retailer rather than paying full price.
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Tim
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Aenea wrote:
tofarley wrote:
I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.


So if someone does not put themselves at risk they do not deserve a profit and should just work for free???


I will let your boss know!


Sarcasm isn't your thing, is it? I'll assume it's a cultural difference. I was making a point by saying the opposite of what I meant.
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cferejohn wrote:

No seriously, I do want someone to explain the gripe to me. I feel like I'm being associated with a position and I don't even understand the issue.

I believe the issue was that Clever Mojo refused to allow any company which had an online sales presence to sell their game. The view was that of price control vs. online discount vendors. Clever Mojo wants to be the only online vendor of their product to control the sale price.

It has made obtaining the game somewhat difficult if your local store also has an online store. Three of the places I could have purchased it through could not get product because of their online shopping system. It was VERY frustrating for the store owners who were being asked for the product yet could not provide it. (regardless of their pricing policy)

As a customer it was quite frustrating. It's different if something is sold out or out of print, but to be told "Nope, we're not allowed to sell it" by multiple stores is well, silly.

To purchase through their site is a pain, the shipping and customs for Canadians made the purchase not worth the cost or effort. I seem to remember they only shipped UPS which for Canadians adds $25-35 in brokerage fees added by UPS. (cash grab by UPS, nothing to do with Canadian Customs) In any case the online purchase just wasn't worth the headache.

I was lucky and found a retailer with no online store (I believe they had to agree to not sell it at a discount).
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tofarley wrote:
Aenea wrote:
tofarley wrote:
I think game publishers aren't supposed to make a profit, especially if they use Kickstarter and don't have to put themselves at risk printing 2,000 copies of something nobody wants. That's my understanding, at least.


So if someone does not put themselves at risk they do not deserve a profit and should just work for free???


I will let your boss know!


Sarcasm isn't your thing, is it? I'll assume it's a cultural difference. I was making a point by saying the opposite of what I meant.


Hey, just got up after onle five hours of sleep, can you blame me?
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Android wrote:
cferejohn wrote:

No seriously, I do want someone to explain the gripe to me. I feel like I'm being associated with a position and I don't even understand the issue.

I believe the issue was that Clever Mojo refused to allow any company which had an online sales presence to sell their game. The view was that of price control vs. online discount vendors. Clever Mojo wants to be the only online vendor of their product to control the sale price.

It has made obtaining the game somewhat difficult if your local store also has an online store. Three of the places I could have purchased it through could not get product because of their online shopping system. It was VERY frustrating for the store owners who were being asked for the product yet could not provide it. (regardless of their pricing policy)

As a customer it was quite frustrating. It's different if something is sold out or out of print, but to be told "Nope, we're not allowed to sell it" by multiple stores is well, silly.

To purchase through their site is a pain, the shipping and customs for Canadians made the purchase not worth the cost or effort. I seem to remember they only shipped UPS which for Canadians adds $25-35 in brokerage fees added by UPS. (cash grab by UPS, nothing to do with Canadian Customs) In any case the online purchase just wasn't worth the headache.

I was lucky and found a retailer with no online store (I believe they had to agree to not sell it at a discount).


The free market works both ways. If you want the freedom to buy online at deep discount, they get the freedom to not sell it that way.
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