GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!
8,698 Supporters
$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
19 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
29 
 Thumb up
 Hide
67 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Women and Gaming

Subject: Women's Issues in Gaming rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Amy
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rylfrazier wrote:
I have Will Wheedon on Google and he posted to an interesting article today:

http://squidygirl.blogspot.com/2012/06/lets-play-game-part-2...


Good read.


I wanted to respond to the issues in this article that was posted on BGG, but I also didn't want to hijack the "women's chat" thread to do it. Heck, I even hesitate about posting this thread here because I don't want this area of the forum to be off putting to newcomers. The sad thing about my fear is that the conversation regarding women's issues in relation to gaming could be very civil and enlightening (especially in this more controlled environment vs. RSP). In my opinion as a female gamer, some of the recent conversations have become cringe worthy when comments are made that only enforce some of the negative attitudes towards and unwarranted dismissals of women's issues in gaming. But the fact that I even hesitate to post this thread, is the very reason why I should and further reinforces some of my own concerns. I ask and hope that everyone who posts in this thread (and in this section of the forum) does so with the upmost respect to female gamers, if you would like to make more controversial or potentially offending comments I invite that individual to start a new thread in RSP for a more heated debate.

Having been a female gamer since the early 80's, I've personally seen or dealt with a lot of unique issues for women in the gaming community at large. Quite frankly I'm used to dealing with these issues, but I'm saddened that any female new to gaming community still has to deal with some of the same issues. I feel at this point that the community isn't as progressed as it SHOULD be at this point. Generally I view gamers as individuals that are more intelligent than the societal norm. Perhaps my expectations are higher than they should be, but sometimes I feel like the gaming industry and community is further behind than it should be in respect to women's issues in gaming.

I believe a lot of the comments or behaviors by individuals are made in sheer ignorance to their impact. Especially when it comes from an ignorance of how many female gamers there really are or how some seemingly polite comments can attribute to the problem in a microaggressive way. (Thanks to Laughing Cow Cheese for cluing me on microaggressions in general.) What is even more disturbing to me is the blatant hateful comments and behaviors that are still occurring against female gamers in this day and age. As well as the denial that there is really a problem, when they are brought to light. The above blog post addresses some of these instances which have been occurring lately which also bring to mind others:

Capcom Fighting Game Tournament
Hateful responses against Tropes vs. Women in Videogames Kickstarter
Reaction to the "Country Boy, Gamer Girl" video featuring Felicia Day

All of this in an environment when the amount of women gamers is heavily on the rise:

Forty-seven percent of all video game players are women per ESA Study

Am I the only one surprised we are still dealing with some of these issues to the extent we are?





21 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the study.

As a male gamer who plays Sims 3, I was curious what types of games women played. My thoughts are that you can't lump videogames into a single group anymore, because of the rise in social and casual games. Before I could answer that question, I found an interesting statistic of what games gamers overall played:

42%: Puzzle, Board Game, Game Show, Trivia, Card Games

Unfortunately, the study doesn't break down the type of game by gender.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brook Gentlestream
United States
Long Beach
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
People act like aggressive, ignorant trolls every day. If not under anonymity, at least under the certainty of a lack of any real reprisal. An entire generation of people are growing up with the idea that they can express whatever they want, whenever they want, and don't have to respect anyone else. It isn't just women, and it isn't just gamers. It's all over the internet, blogs, youtube... pretty much everytime anyone tries to express anything.

It's sad that *anyone* has to deal with these things and I fully agree with the author of that blog, but feel that she is too interested in the specific instance she writes about. This kind of disrespect is rampant through our online communities, not just the profiles and mailboxes of women gamers.

And I have no idea what could ever possibly be done about it, except to hope that people continue to express and create rather than waste their time and energy battling the trolls.



edit: What's with all the video game links? I thought we were talking about real gaming...
17 
 Thumb up
0.07
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ms Aura

California
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am still surprised. I truly am and having the most experience in the video gaming area I am sad to see that it is a learned behavior that is passed around. I have tried to be around the fighting game community only to be discouraged or not taken seriously because I have a pair on my chest rather than between my legs. As with the capcom fiasco young adults,teens,boys think its normal or even okay. Those who stand up and say that it's not cool get mocked, bullied, etc.

It's not a f-ing boys club.

As for board games the deeper I get into this culture the uglier I see. I really thought it might be more evolved from what I had experienced but there comes a male to make sure that I should know my place and be aware I have a vagina. "thanks, I almost forgot". Forget trying to get into wargames. Omg it's like I ran naked into the men's bathroom while everyone is taking a wiz.laugh


"why are aren't there any women in gaming?"

Cos they don't want to be treated like they're stupid, asked out on a date during turn 4 or stared at like an alien.


laugh

As for comments I think men shouldn't be taken aback by seeing women gamers. Comments like " wow, you're actually pretty good" or "you don't look like a gamer, awesome!" or "that's cool that you play games, I can teach you a few good ones" I have found can be insulting coming from male gamers. Today, there is no excuse for anyone to be surprised that a woman games.

I don't know how to help the situation though, I'm afraid I got tired and play offline at home, go to arcades in the non busy hours, stopped going to game groups in my area that weren't family centered.

For curious minds: I play mostly shooters,rpg and fighting video games. Ameritrash and card games. I love all games.

Excuse my colorful post.
28 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee

Illinois
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb

Being a married man I really hate to stick up for the ladies point of view, but alas I must.

Disclaimer: I am not talking about the true "men gamers" who treat women as equals and enjoy gaming with anyone.

I find it amazing that the same males who complain that there are no women gamers around, be it to game with or to become friends with, are the ones that seem to act the most disrespectful when women are near.

Why is this? Machismo? Lack of civility? Intimidation? Insecurity? All of the above?

Nope, Brook hit it right on the head. Total disrespect by a small (hopefully) core group of male gamers that harass/bully anyone that is not in their small peer group. They will target anyone based on their age, sex, religion, speech, or even type of game they play.

Thus, when they encounter a female gamer, what do they attack? The female gender. Their dislike has nothing to do with someone being a woman, it has to do with attacking someone where it will do the most damage. In this case...gender.

In my experience women take these attacks very personal. (Not that they shouldn't) The morons harassing them know this so they keep doing it. They also know many women may not fight back, which makes them even bolder.

My point is women gamers are accepted and wanted by 99% of male gamers. If you are a woman gamer just know that it is the men harassing you that are morons and have the issues. Not you.

Hope that makes sense as I started rambling.....

10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
stephen
United Kingdom
Burton on trent
Staffordshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Doesn`t surprise me one little bit really. Attitudes to women in gaming just reflect the attitudes to women in the world at large.

I once believed that we were moving towards equality, that sexism was declining generation on generation, women have been getting better access to employment.I was at one stage prepared to believe that in fact it was men who were becoming the repressed group based on the way in which boys were falling behind girls in education, the widening of opportunities in the world of work and women generally having better support networks.

But now I hold my head in my hands at the way in which we seem to be seeing a resurgence of anti female sentiment expressed in our own gaming backyard. I think the internet is partially responsible it provides a meeting place for the exchange of misogynistic ideas and is a breeding ground where the relative anonymity of the environment allows these views to prosper and permeate. I think there is male mob mentality going on, that it is not manly to stand up for womens rights and that it is okay to `trash talk` in video games using whatever language you like, the aim seems to be to cause as much offense to other players as possible and so we get the threats of rape and violence used against female gamers.

The mob mentality / boys club, is further supported and reinforced by an industry that never moves more a few yards from supporting the lowest common denominator in gaming, so we see the Lara Croft rape issue and the women as sex objects or women reduced to ciphers and stereotypes. Of course also supporting a negative view of women is the magazine culture of lads mags where there seems to be a neverending stream of starlets willing to be photographed in their underwear and less in order to sell their latest film or album. It seems a womans opinion is only valued when she takes her clothes off.


It does not matter how many female gamers there are, because at the moment no-one is really listening to them, I wish they would, I would love to play games that just do things differently because quite frankly the constant stream of cooky cutter videogames are getting dull.

Sadly I think the situation will only get worse, kids start gaming and therefore being exposed to negative female images at a very early age, couple that with kids spending increasing amounts of time on their own online or amongst peers means that as a group these negative views of women will persist and become normalised.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patar Absurdus the Shananigator
United States
Carrollton
TX
flag msg tools
"Gird Up Your Loins, Like a Man!" ~God to Job
badge
"We're put on this earth to do a job. And each of us gets the time we get to do it. And when this life is over and you stand in front of the Lord... Well, you try tellin' him it was all some Frenchman's joke." ~Betsy Solverson
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the main problem here is meanness and general douchebaggery. People are willing to say mean things out of general harshness and it is not reserved for any particular group. If we as a community discourage rude harsh behavior towards everyone than that will naturally discourage sexism as a result as well.

Creating a hostile environment for anyone should be discouraged and of course language that attacks your ethnicity, gender, etc. can be particularly hurtful.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Redmond
WA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It's true that the general rudeness of online gaming in voice chat is turning away male gamers as well as female gamers. My son just turns the chat off. And it's a strange situation, because game servers, game audio feeds aren't unmonitored or uncontrollable public spaces; the providers of such services have every tool they need to stop trash talk.

They've decided they make more money with the trash talk allowed.

It's also true that there are male nerds who resent women in general because they couldn't date the pretty or cool girls. Speaking as a nerd girl, I was never asked out by a nerd boy. There were nerd boys I would've been happy to go out with if asked; and nerd boys who I did go out with when I asked; and two I married, but I had to make the first move. So I don't have a lot of sympathy with that viewpoint; everybody has to risk rejection (I sure did). And if a jock had asked me out, maybe I would've gone out with him, but I sure wouldn't have wound up marrying him unless he was an honor student. So I have a thing for high iq guys...sue me.

The trash talk on women's identity also extends to the gender conforming trash talk aimed at men, such as the Brony-haters.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/818491/calling-all-broni...
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathieu Gauthier
Canada
Montréal
Québec
flag msg tools
lordrahvin wrote:
This kind of disrespect is rampant through our online communities, not just the profiles and mailboxes of women gamers.

And I have no idea what could ever possibly be done about it, except to hope that people continue to express and create rather than waste their time and energy battling the trolls.


I'm not an expert, but you sound like a concerned troll ("Is this really about women and gaming ? I don't think so!") and you follow that by telling women how they should feel and what they should do with their time.

You're negating their experiences, while dismissing that women in gaming face harassment that men are never subjected to (please don't say that men face trolling to, this is not about us right now). While I'm sure you mean well, I don't think your words are helping.

This negative environment exists even on BGG. How welcoming do you think this website was to women when for years you had women objectified in the pictures on the front page with dozens of comments and hundreds of thumbs confirming that this community encouraged that behavior ? Not to mention that every time these issues are raised, you could play sexism bingo with most of the answers from the community.

As for JonJacob's comment: I don't care why men (or a specific group of men) hate women. It's still not right (not that I think that you think that it makes it OK, I'm just saying that whatever the reason, it's still misogyny).

To the OP. Thank you for bringing up this issue!

A few month ago I would have been surprised (before I really started reading about feminism 101, etc.) Now I think those issues are present in every subgroup of the population (from atheist, to progressives and definitely gamers too) and the more male dominated they are, the greater the issues.

It could be interesting to create a geeklist as a sexism 101 course. Although I suspect it will be quite time consuming for the actual impact it will have (not to mention the flame war that it will ignite).
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
mathieugauthier wrote:
As for JonJacob's comment: I don't care why men (or a specific group of men) hate women.

Really? If one sees a problem and hopes to solve it or reduce it (and not just complain about it), it usually seems quite useful to explore and understand various causes of the problem.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Brook,
I do agree that the internet is full of Trolls and some of this behavior is to be expected. Even with that, I’m still appalled at the extent and lengths to which some of these “trolls” went in their rage. (Especially with the Kickstarter where the critic was threatened with violence, death, and sexual assault along with all the stereotypical insults against females. ) I’ve ignored some of these issues for a long time, since honestly I prefer to spend the majority of my free time gaming vs. dwelling over what is wrong with the community. I thought some of these issues would sort themselves out in time, and they just haven’t. In some ways, things seem to be getting worse. From where I’m sitting now, it looks like things aren’t going to get better unless gamers and developers become more proactive about making positive changes in the industry and community.

Martha,
=D I feel your pain.

Lee,
I wish 99% of male gamers were supportive of female gamers, but I can tell you from experience that isn’t a correct assumption. It is a bigger problem than you believe. But I will also say that it appears the majority of male gamers seem to be supportive or at least civil to female gamers. I’d love to see that percentage grow!
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JonJacob wrote:
As a young nerd in school it was impossible to get a date. The jocks would kick the shit out of me on a daily basis and the girls that loved those jocks (which was almost all of them)... would never even look at me.

......

But what is the point of all this? Well.... I know that several of the nerds I've hung out with in the past are A/ not used to female gamers, B/ still have emotional issues around women thanks to a past were the majority of women ignored them and C/ are awkward about their sexuality in general and women being present only opens this up all the more.


Jacob,

Thank you for your story and perspective. One of the things that struck me about reading about your high school experiences being a "nerd" is that I can deeply identify with that as well. I was heavily into tabletop RPGs, video gaming, fantasy novels from a young age at a time when this was very "uncool". I didn't get beat up every day, but I certainly was ostracized for my interests. I dealt with wild rumors about me being a satanist for playing D&D. I got very little interest from males in high school. Another tough thing was that on top of all that I had to deal with male geeks that viewed me as being an outcast or not a "true" gamer because I was female. As I got older, on the other side were some male gamers that seemed to show interest in me more as a love/sex interest than a fellow gamer. Thinking about it, the majority of male gamers I interacted with at a younger age either seemed to view me as an outsider or an object or both. I'm not looking for pity either, but I wanted to share my own experiences. Especially the fact that female geeks are not immune to the same issues that male geeks go through.
24 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Beaton
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
I have a cunning plan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Renwmn wrote:

Am I the only one surprised we are still dealing with some of these issues to the extent we are?


Call me a misanthrope, but nothing people do to be cruel to each other surprises me. But when I see my own fellow nerds taking the shit they've been handed and passing it along with interest, it fills me with despair for humanity.
15 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert
United States
West Union
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JonJacob wrote:
So even though I do believe there is some resentment and hatred coming from both sides I also think that several nerds/geeks may speak ill of women as a defense mechanism based on years of being ignored and when a woman is nice to them or wants to play a game they think she's being sarcastic and are waiting for the sucker punch. Easier to give it before you receive it and all that.

Well, now, that's a patently reprehensible world-view.

This post tells more about a dangerously superficial obsession with socially minded losers. I went to high school, and I was is a number of groups strongly disliked by the social set. There were plenty of people that laughed at my interests. That's fine -- I laughed at theirs just as much. It was quite convenient for people to self-filter themselves out of the people I might care about. You can bet I grabbed any girls that were near our interests and dragged them right into our activities.

Don't blame others when you let them define your life.

I also agree that the issue is more one of a culture of meanness on the internet rather than reactionary anti-girl nerd-hate. Sexism, to many, is just another way to be mean. It may not even mean anything to them personally.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fernando Robert Yu
Philippines
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JonJacob wrote:
Renwmn wrote:


Jacob,

Thank you for your story and perspective. One of the things that struck me about reading about your high school experiences being a "nerd" is that I can deeply identify with that as well. I was heavily into tabletop RPGs, video gaming, fantasy novels from a young age at a time when this was very "uncool". I didn't get beat up every day, but I certainly was ostracized for my interests. I dealt with wild rumors about me being a satanist for playing D&D. I got very little interest from males in high school. Another tough thing was that on top of all that I had to deal with male geeks that viewed me as being an outcast or not a "true" gamer because I was female. As I got older, on the other side were some male gamers that seemed to show interest in me more as a love/sex interest than a fellow gamer. Thinking about it, the majority of male gamers I interacted with at a younger age either seemed to view me as an outsider or an object or both. I'm not looking for pity either, but I wanted to share my own experiences. Especially the fact that female geeks are not immune to the same issues that male geeks go through.


I do understand this story of yours as well as I can. There was a female group of nerds that I did hang out with on occasion although we were all too dumb to admit to any sexual attraction or take relationships further then a hello or awkward dance once a year.

I talked to one of the girls quite a bit one night and discovered that although she didn't get beat up and verbally assaulted on a regular basis the girls did something I thought was even worse. They alway ignored her. Except this one time... They called her up and invited her to a party. She had never been to a cool party before and was all excited to meet some people and finally feel like she fit in. She went home, got her make up on, got all dressed up (and she was beautiful too) and was looking great standing outside her home waiting for the cool girls to come pick her up for her first teenage party.

The girls pulled up in a car, clearly no room for her in this car... slowed down with the windows rolled down and laughed at her then drove away.

Personally I would rather get beat up.

So I know people get this on both sides and I don't mean to sound like I'm dismissing that but it wasn't my story to tell... although I guess it didn't take much ribbing to get it out of me.


This is sad and downright cruel...grrrr!!!!

In the end, you can only pity people who make fun of others due to their own insecurity, since these insecurities tend to last a lifetime...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
flag msg tools
Yep, I am a girl Scientist. Come for the breasts; Stay for the brains!
badge
For as long as I shall live I will testify to love; I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't had time to write up all my thoughts about this subject but that Felecia Day got hate spew for that silly fun little video is just absurd to the point of mind bending.

Do some people have literally nothing to do but spew hate at any little thing that doesn't happen to be their thing. And why is it they cannot isolate dislike of things that have to do with taste from general hatred for people they then can spew onto groups.

Sheesh this makes my head hurt.

10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
stephen
United Kingdom
Burton on trent
Staffordshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually wonder whether the people who post these venomous posts on the internet actually hate the things they post about, the song could have been about anything, chickens, soup, the price of fish and it would still have got horrible remarks made about it. There are some people who just like trolling for its own ends, they dream that the person seeing the comments is all upset and they also know that they are untouchable and that there remarks will be there forever. In many ways it is the internet version of Grafitti, its not about man, woman or fish, its just about being mean for kicks and of course where one person makes a comment there will be a load of other trolls waiting to pile on.

In normal life I bet these people act just like you and me. Road rage requires the feeling of safety of being in a car, trolling requires the anonymity of the internet.

In short there are people all over the world who are just sat at there computers spewing misery and filth for no other reason than their own entertainment. At one time they might have been the town gossip or the writer of a scandal sheet, now they have the internet. There is no technology in the world that people cant pervert to the misery of others.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dean Adam
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is perhaps starting a little on the typical distraction on nearly any feminist type post of 'hey, lets talk about the poor men', but may be relevant to the question of are board gamers/games as a group more misogynistic than other groups of men?

Guess I was interested in the idea that gamers perhaps having a higher ratio of geeks and nerds than cool kids, perhaps equates to a fairly high level of men who have experienced some level of discrimination growing up. Surely this would make them sensitive to the pain and frustration associated with powerlessness and margionalisation. Yet Paulo Freire theorized a lot about how when the oppressed overthrow their oppression they take on the tools of their oppressor. All the stats about abusers being more likely to have been abused support his theories at a personal level also.

None of this helps produce change, but sometimes its useful to think about the etiology of behaviour if it helps to provide insight and levers for changing how we react to each other.



7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Eugene
Oregon
msg tools
Avatar
mb
Renwmn wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
I have Will Wheedon on Google and he posted to an interesting article today:
http://squidygirl.blogspot.com/2012/06/lets-play-game-part-2...

The above blog post addresses some of these instances which have been occurring lately which also bring to mind others:

Capcom Fighting Game Tournament
Hateful responses against Tropes vs. Women in Videogames Kickstarter
Reaction to the "Country Boy, Gamer Girl" video featuring Felicia Day

Renwmn, these all spotlight popular videogame culture. What is their relationship to board game culture as we experience it here on BGG?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Redmond
WA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
moonglow wrote:
...
Guess I was interested in the idea that gamers perhaps having a higher ratio of geeks and nerds than cool kids, perhaps equates to a fairly high level of men who have experienced some level of discrimination growing up. Surely this would make them sensitive to the pain and frustration associated with powerlessness and margionalisation. Yet Paulo Freire theorized a lot about how when the oppressed overthrow their oppression they take on the tools of their oppressor. All the stats about abusers being more likely to have been abused support his theories at a personal level also.




That's how I felt it should have been when I was twelve years old.

I took a class at school, "Space Science". This was back in the early '70s in the USA in Seattle.

I was the only girl in a class of thirty. The way the classroom was arranged was in lab tables of four seats. I had a table to myself the entire trimester (one third of s school year, daily for three months). Not one boy in that class would talk to me. The teacher was male, and he didn't seem to quite know what to make of me either.

I felt keenly the responsibility of representing my entire gender in that class (Dammit! Girls can be good at science! Girls can be good at math! And this girl is never going to cry or show her loneliness in this class!) Boys I'd played with elementary school were ignoring me.

I determined I was going to be the best in the class. Period. And I was. When there were group assignments, I was Group of One.

As an adult, I now understand that the boys were at an age when their own biology was stating to betray them. Some were having frontal cortex malfunction because a girl was in the vicinity. Some may have had other embarrassing bodily function reactions. All were afraid of any teasing by their peers. Some were undoubtedly attracted to me (I was a cute girl, if feisty) and all were undoubtedly terrified of me; I was smart with a sharp tongue.

But it hurt me deeply to realize that had I been an alien from another planet, I would have been treated better than as a member of their own species.

In hindsight, the teacher could have handled it all better instead of leaving me there to fight social isolation. He could've instituted assigned seating and assigned study groups and projects. He could have addressed us all as "students" instead of "gentlemen and lady". He could not have assigned me to be secretary of the rocket club when I joined.

Other than that, he was a super cute teacher and I had a crush on him. I did appreciate that as a female I did not have to worry about being betrayed by my biology.

Tears come to my eyes when I think about that experience though.
16 
 Thumb up
1.30
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Redmond
WA
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Let me empower you with some tips to break the cycle:

*If you're ever around any guys saying smack about women gamers, whether a woman gamer is present or not, tell them that you're not cool with that. Lay it out: "Hey, do you guys want more women around to game with or not? Then don't be dicks and trying to show how macho/cool/bad you are by putting down women. Get with the 21st century."

*Game night and you want to make a woman fell welcome? Play with her. Play with her just like you would a guy in terms of playing the game, but cut out trash talk and profanities. If she makes a play that impresses you, say so.

*Game night and you want to make women feel welcome? Make *all* women feel welcome, not just the ones you find hot. (I include this tip for completeness, not to accuse you of shallowness). Play with girls who are young for you--but could use encouragement and mentoring. Play with women old enough to be your mother. Play with women old enough to be your grandmother.

*Invite women you already know to game night, or ask all your friends if they have friends who game, male and female.

*Know a woman who plays? Ask her to help you invite more people to play. Play in public with her as your Gaming Wingwoman. When men and women and couples stop to watch what you are doing, explain it to everybody.

*Make gaming conversation as your opener. Do approach a woman gamer and ask her (sample questions to use) "What are your favorite games? Why? Do you know about BoardGame Geek? What's a game you've always wanted to play but nobody will? What game are you best at? Is there a game you'd like to get better at? How important is game artwork to you?" and answer similar questions about yourself. Find common ground in your game choices.

*As a general rule of being likeable, the most fascinating conversationalist is the most interested listener. You may come from a family comfortable with "talking over" aka "interrupting" as an expression of interest in conversation style (think stereotypical New Yorker). This can be very off-putting to someone raised to consider that rude. If you are talking to someone who interrupts as they get interested in a topic, feel free to interrupt; otherwise, listen fully to any answers to your conversational offering. Nod and say "uh huh" but wait until she finishes talking. Offer *short* anecdotes about your experiences or funny stories; save the longer character or game stories for later.

You can break the cycle.

We can break the cycle.

edited to add: I'm sorry to see the post to which I was replying was removed. I appreciated the honesty and sense of risk taken to post it. I was honestly trying to be helpful with specific suggestions in my response and not attempting to be critical of the poster. I hope it was not taken as personal criticism. May you meet the Gaming Woman of your dreams and raise Gaming Kids!
18 
 Thumb up
0.57
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enjoy some homing fireballs!
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Laughing Cow Cheese wrote:
Play with her. Play with her just like you would a guy in terms of playing the game, but cut out trash talk and profanities.

Wait, so women are equal, but we're supposed to treat them differently than guys?

ok.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dean Adam
New Zealand
Auckland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
equity != equality. Equity is actually about treating people differently to have the same outcome. In this case everyone wanting to play and enjoying playing board games...


Cynical wrote:
Laughing Cow Cheese wrote:
Play with her. Play with her just like you would a guy in terms of playing the game, but cut out trash talk and profanities.

Wait, so women are equal, but we're supposed to treat them differently than guys?

ok.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kathy Sheets
United States
Stuart
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cynical wrote:
Laughing Cow Cheese wrote:
Play with her. Play with her just like you would a guy in terms of playing the game, but cut out trash talk and profanities.

Wait, so women are equal, but we're supposed to treat them differently than guys?

ok.


Equal doesn't mean identical. Different people respond to things differently and that's not solely based on which gender they happen to be. Laughing Cow Cheese was just giving a suggestion on how to make a game group more welcoming to women in general and it seems to me that men would benefit, too.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Eugene
Oregon
msg tools
Avatar
mb
Maybe the issue here then is "in general", as in "Rated G for general admission". The women in my game group all welcome a more R-rated experience, with adult trash talk and adult profanities both.

This is part of the problem with establishing "welcoming" as the measure of excellence. G-rated fare, while certainly spreading open arms to the largest audience possible, does limit some facets of normal adultness.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.