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Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Banner Artifact Abilities rss

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Tim Yates
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I just wanted to clarify exactly how Banner Artifacts work, because I can't find a 100% reliable source of information.

If a Banner Artifact is attached to a unit, may I use its second ability (the one that removes it from my deck), or must I get the artifact discarded at the end of my turn, draw it back into my hand, and use the second ability then?

Also, there is a particular Banner Artifact (Courage, I believe) whose secondary ability is to cancel all wounds dealt to you this turn. Does this include wounds received via Poison that have been placed in the discard pile?
 
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Paul Grogan
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setaymit wrote:
If a Banner Artifact is attached to a unit, may I use its second ability (the one that removes it from my deck), or must I get the artifact discarded at the end of my turn, draw it back into my hand, and use the second ability then?

Also, there is a particular Banner Artifact (Courage, I believe) whose secondary ability is to cancel all wounds dealt to you this turn. Does this include wounds received via Poison that have been placed in the discard pile?


1. No, and you are correct with the discarding at end of round to get it back in your deck.

2. Banner of Protection: I believe so. I would say putting a wound in your discard pile is still 'receiving'.
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Tim Yates
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Hah, I did mean round :)

It's easy to get those two confused.

Thanks for the clarification, Paul!
 
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Pawel Bulacz
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PaulGrogan wrote:

2. Banner of Protection: I believe so. I would say putting a wound in your discard pile is still 'receiving'.

Is assigning damage to your units also "receiving"?
I mean can I throw away those wounds?
Or does "you" on the card mean "mage knight"?
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Hien Nguyen Duc
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pabula wrote:
PaulGrogan wrote:

2. Banner of Protection: I believe so. I would say putting a wound in your discard pile is still 'receiving'.

Is assigning damage to your units also "receiving"?
I mean can I throw away those wounds?
Or does "you" on the card mean "mage knight"?


Sorry for digging up this old thread, but I have this same question as well. Anyone knows the answer?
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Antonio Caciolli
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I would ask a question about Banner of Fortune. How it works? I can just flip the card to avoid taking damage for the combact or just to reduce the damage by an amount equal to the armor of the unit without giving a wound card to that unit?

If possible I have also another question: there is an action cards which ad +2 to all block and attack of the units. This bonus are also valid for ranged and siege attacks?

thanks a lot
ciao
Antonio
 
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David desJardins
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kyokorebit wrote:
pabula wrote:
PaulGrogan wrote:

2. Banner of Protection: I believe so. I would say putting a wound in your discard pile is still 'receiving'.

Is assigning damage to your units also "receiving"?
I mean can I throw away those wounds?
Or does "you" on the card mean "mage knight"?


Sorry for digging up this old thread, but I have this same question as well. Anyone knows the answer?


Wounds that you received, not your units. I don't see any ambiguity here.
 
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David desJardins
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Antonio8080 wrote:
I would ask a question about Banner of Fortune. How it works? I can just flip the card to avoid taking damage for the combact or just to reduce the damage by an amount equal to the armor of the unit without giving a wound card to that unit?


There's no "Banner of Fortune" in the base game or expansion.

If you mean "Banner of Fortitude", you flip the artifact to ignore the Wound that would be assigned to that unit (and any other effects to that unit, as from Poison or Paralyze). Everything else happens exactly the same as without the banner; you just flip the artifact instead of putting the Wound on the unit.
 
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Ryan Yan
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DaviddesJ wrote:

Wounds that you received, not your units. I don't see any ambiguity here.


IMHO the unambiguous way should be like "all Wounds your Hero received this turn".

In the rulebook Assign Damage Phase, the word "you" is never used - just "your Hero" or "your Units".

If that is true, by destroying the artifact you can only remove up to 4,5 or 6 Wounds from hand (depending on your fame level) because of the KO rule. Meh? Strange enough, the (stronger) effect comes with a "Combat" icon instead of "Healing" one. This means you can (and can only) destroy it during the combat, probably before getting KO'ed.
 
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David desJardins
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prograft wrote:
If that is true, by destroying the artifact you can only remove up to 4,5 or 6 Wounds from hand (depending on your fame level) because of the KO rule.


That's not strictly true; there are other ways to receive Wounds during your turn that wouldn't knock you out.
 
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JD Woody
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This is tricky because you have to discard ALL non-wound cards immediately upon getting knocked out. So you have to destroy the artifact while taking damage, but before the 5th/6th/7th wound knocks you out. I infer that to mean you will still take as many wounds as exceed your hand limit. And those wounds does include damage assigned to a unit! "All wounds you received" refers to all of them, the ones in your hand, discard pike or on your units.
 
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Joseph Cochran
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Remember that this game isn't a reflex game: you can always play things out in your head and then rewind a bit. So knowing that you WILL take wounds, you can burn the artifact at the start of combat (or even during the blocking phase of combat before you take wounds) to trigger its effect. It doesn't matter when you do it: so you can't be knocked out before getting the chance to trigger it.

And the timing of playing the banner isn't an issue to which wounds you throw away either. The wording of Banner of Protection is: "At the end of your turn, you may throw away all wounds you received this turn." So there's no issue of "which wounds did I take before I played it and which ones did I take afterward?" They all go.
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Ryan Yan
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Multiple questions have been discussed in this thread. But I'd like to dig it out to pursue official (or convincing) answers to questions regarding destroying Banner of Fortitude:

1) Can you throw away Wounds you gained on your Units this turn, too?
pabula wrote:

Is assigning damage to your units also "receiving"?
I mean can I throw away those wounds?
Or does "you" on the card mean "mage knight"?

prograft wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:

Wounds that you received, not your units. I don't see any ambiguity here.

IMHO the unambiguous way should be like "all Wounds your Hero received this turn".
In the rulebook Assign Damage Phase, the word "you" is never used - just "your Hero" or "your Units".


2) If you play / discard some Wounds from your hand using effects like Invocation, Power of Pain, post-combat I Feel No Pain, and etc, can you throw away them too?
This question (on PoP only) was discussed briefly in this thread without an official answer:
Banner of Protection - poison - Power of Pain
... and brought up again in MK:LL Conquer & Hold Tournament #2 with more detailed questions:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Here's a related question: the strong effect of the Banner of Protection lets you "throw away all Wounds you received this turn". Can you throw them away even if they aren't in your hand any more? I would say no, it seems implicit to me that you can only throw them away from your hand, but maybe the literalists would disagree.

syzygia wrote:
David, I don't get you question about wounds. Do you mean, for instance, if you get a wound and discard it with invocation (or other methods)? I've found this situation once and I ruled you throw it away, I don't see why it should be otherwise.


3) Paul says that Wounds in discards due to Poisonous attacks can be thrown away too. What happens if you flip Long Night (or cast Meditation) to shuffle that/those Wound(s) back to your deck before the end of your turn?
Especially, say, if you had one "old" Wound in your discard pile, and you added a new one there in this turn. Then, one of these two Wounds goes back to your deck due to the reasons above. How can you determine which Wound to be thrown away?

DaviddesJ wrote:
Because keeping track of the wound as it moves around seems wrong to me. Suppose you discard the wound with Invocation and then you reshuffle your discard pile and put three cards into the draw pile with Long Night. Then do you go through the draw pile to trash it? What if you had multiple wounds in your discard pile, how do you decide which one is this one? I just think chasing it around isn't the right thing to do.


4) If yes to question 2), does the Wound you inserted into another player's hand using Healing Ritual disappear, too?
prograft wrote:
But I think David is talking about Healing Ritual, via which one of the Wounds (which you received this turn) "goes to the hand of the closest hero".

IMO it's another example of casual wording of "The closest hero receives a Wound into hand." So it should stay there when you destroy your Banner of Protection.


Thank you!
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David desJardins
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I've expressed my opinion on most of these already. But I would add another question (which is of a sort that has come up before): what happens if you destroy the Banner of Protection while partially attending PvP? Does it resolve at the end of your subsequent turn? Does it affect the wounds you received during PvP?
 
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