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Masters of Venice» Forums » Rules

Subject: Player Accidentally Chooses His Current Location Space rss

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DigitalMan
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Played our first game of this tonight. This issue was not addressed in the rules (as far as I was able to find). I also couldn't find any BGG thread discussing it.

When all the players simultaneously choose their destination for the round, they are not allowed to choose the location they currently occupy. However, we had a player do exactly that.

The dilemma is this... if we had let him just change his location at the last minute, then he'd have had the benefit of seeing everyone else's choice before making his decision. On the other hand, having everyone reselect would be a problem, too, since they'd already shown what they wanted to do. (Basically, you can't put the cat back in the bag.)

So, of the two alternatives we could come up with, one would help the player who messed up and the other alternative would hurt everyone else. We decided the only thing to do was to have him lose his selection for the round. As unforgiving as this game is, that's a pretty harsh penalty.

Any thoughts?
 
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Sebastian
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I am pretty sure you did the right thing - it is the only possible decision. But he should be able tu use maybe shared actions.
 
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Andrew Miller
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Usually this happens with less experienced players and caught before anyone's had a chance to analyze the rest of the moves, so I normally just have them look up and quickly pick a new location.

But, this can happen to the best of us, too. Considering the skill level of your absent-minded player in this game, denying him an action is indeed a viable choice for the reasons you've laid out.

If he's of middling skill, perhaps have someone spin a selector at random and force him to go there? That could benefit other players pretty easily, though, so perhaps send him to the Church?

--ElSoy
 
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Clement Tey
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Just ignore that rule for that round, and allow the player to take his action as per normal as though he had gone there. But warn him if that happens again, he skips his action.
 
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BibKamp318
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I would have gone for this solution: all players know all other players' planned action, and can choose to take that info into account - or not [this could lead to very complicated levels of reasoning ]
DigitalMan wrote:
On the other hand, having everyone reselect would be a problem, too, since they'd already shown what they wanted to do.
 
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DigitalMan
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princemousey wrote:
Just ignore that rule for that round, and allow the player to take his action as per normal as though he had gone there. But warn him if that happens again, he skips his action.


Since this was a game of 5 newbies, this would have probably been fine.

It does seem, though, that the rules to the game are incomplete in a sense.

(Thanks all!)
 
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Not really Ryan Leaf
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I'm a bit of a rules stickler, so I tend to lean toward harsher penalties.

If, at any time, a player chooses the same location, he receives a two-part penalty:

1) Loss of turn with no relocation
2) Loss of one finger of choice

This reduces critical errors and allows for a bit more realistic simulation, as we imagine the offender as a thief, attempting to rob others of their profitability.

 
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quohog the great
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Since I usually have to teach this game whenever I play it. This usually happens at least once.

What I've done is have everybody pull back an reselect a location. Normally it doesn't have much of an effect on those that have a straight forward game plan or using a solo action but for shared actions sometimes they are changed othertimes not.

I like the idea to keep the game flowing to advance the wheel to the next choice as a static rule but i haven't tried it yet.

 
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Jerome Chan
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Send him to the airlock!!
 
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Rich Plunkett
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We had someone choose Shipping North twice in a row, and we unanimously agreed with his claim that he meant to choose the "other" shipping office to the one he was currently on.

Else, you really need a choice that does not provide relative benefit to the mistake maker from extra info.

My first thought is that anybody has chosen a shared action, the player should rapidly choose one of the already chosen shared actions, or alternatively be assigned one at random. This is very low impact, since it changes only the order of the resulting task.

But since its possible no one selected such an action, this hasn't "fixed" the problem, and the "rapid choice" thing is inherently problematic. So I would leave that idea and go with "established default locations".

Suggested New Rules:
1) If someone illegally chooses the shipping office that they just came from, they are deemed to have meant the other shipping office, irrespective of the benefit resulting or lack thereof.

2) If some other illegal location choice is made, the choice is adjusted to be "the Mercato" if doing so is legal and else is "the Church".

The rule(s) is fully deterministic, involving no player choice, so the player gains no benefit of information. It is rules consistent since they are always sent to a location that they could have legally chosen. The locations are non-shared, so the impact on others is minimal and the choices are not especially useful ones (church and mecato have there place but are generally poorer than other choices).

Note that suggested rule (2) is sufficient to resolve the matter, so perhaps rule (1) could be omited, but I think its inclusion is kinder, since it reflects probable player intent, while still not allowing them choice after others have disclosed information.


Note also the choice of defaults for rule 2 isnt truly important, just that there be two in a defined order.

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Donald Pjontek
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Our groups solution:

The player who messed up has to select their action openly, then all other players select an action in secret.

This let's all the other players potentially play off the mistake made by the person who was not paying attention.
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richardplunkett wrote:
We had someone choose Shipping North twice in a row, and we unanimously agreed with his claim that he meant to choose the "other" shipping office to the one he was currently on.


this still violates the rules, and is potentially devastating if the offending player has the... uh, whichever power gives you free cubes from the shipping office.


option 1: if you have a d8 handy: roll it. north shipping office is 1, and clockwise from there.

option 2: if you don't have a d8:
everyone moves their pawns, then everyone picks a random number on their wheels. you add those up, move the spinner there (modulo 75), and wherever the result lands is what he does.

if it lands exactly between sections, move it a fraction of an inch further on.

so if the total selected was 105, this would land the spinner on 30, which would mean he's going to the mercato.
 
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