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Anthony Rigo
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I would first like to say hello to everyone! New board game geek here and I love it!

So in our group we started playing Battlestar Galactica and I have some questions because it seems that the game is a bit unfair to the Cylons (usually humans win in the group).

1. I read that if there are no basestars on board and an "activate basestar" icon appears then nothing happens i.e. a basestar does not spawn unlike when you see the activate raiders icon.

2. If that is the case then the Cylon fleet location is only "critically/rarely" useful since the cylon attack cards that spawn basestars are not so many. Even if a basestar spawns you have the nukes fleet jumps and other stuff to vanish it!

Can someone please give me their opinion on the above topics, are me and my friends doing something wrong?



P.S. It looks strange to me because we have been playing for some time now with wrong rules (we didnt do it on purpose it was just a new game to us and made these mistake while reading the rules):
- Whe the activate raiders icon appear we moved/attacked with the existing raiders and spawned 2 from each basestar on the same time.
- Same thing with heavy raiders (well not attack but move + spawn o the same round).
- If there were no basestars on the board and the activate basestar icon appear, we spawned a basestar in front of galactica.
- All raiders heavy raiders moved only clockwise..

As you can see with above due to the mistakes we made there were almost always dozens of ships on the board! But even in that case we always managed to succeed (even if we had revealed cylons in the game) and while playing with every other combat rules correctly! So this is why it looks so strange to me that it is so difficult for cylon ships to spawn with the correct rules - since they all depend on the basestars that only spawn with a few cylon attack cards on the deck!


PS2: sorry for my bad english but it is not my native language



Thank you all
 
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Darren Nakamura
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You have the rules correct now. As I understand it, there are ten Cylon Attack Cards in the Crisis Deck, which has seventy cards total, meaning you should be seeing Cylon Attack Cards about once every seven cards, on average.

Of course, depending on how the luck of the draw goes, how much scouting your group does, and whether Roslin and/or Boomer are in play, you may see many fewer Cylon Attack Cards than that. Indeed, I've had some games where after the initial attack, there were no Cylon ships on board for the rest of the game.

On the other hand, I've had games where there were three Cylon Attack Cards in a row, demolishing our Population before we could do a whole lot about it.

What you need to remember is that while Cylon ships do give the Humans more to have to deal with, it still doesn't leave them in the clear. Crafty Cylons will have to adapt to the situation; they have to spike skill checks cleverly, convince people to tank checks that hit resources, and cast suspicion on other players. If they can manage to create infighting, then they don't need Cylon ships to threaten Galactica (though those always help).

And if you want a game where Cylon ship activations always have some effect, then check out the Cylon Fleet module of the Exodus expansion. Many people who play this refuse to play without it, as it helps to avoid games where no Cylon Attack Cards show up, or when too many show up all at once.
 
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Anthony Rigo
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I get it now. So the cylon attacks are more of a "secondary" way to win and more of a way to trouble humans while trying to deal with everything else.

Well due to all these attacks mentioned before the group didnt had enough time to launch scouts.

Thank you for your quick reply and suggestions. We might check the expansions soon!
 
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Mike
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I find your question interesting because most people complain that it is too hard for the humans when they first start out. You don't find too many new players coming here looking for advice on how to win as the Cylons... but anyway:

It sounds like your revealed Cylon players might be focusing too much on the combat and ignoring other options. Usually, the most-used Cylon location is Caprica - try to give the humans a crisis that targets a weak resource, or better yet, give them an attack. Cylon Fleet should generally be reserved for when you can make a big impact with the right activation - hitting undefended civilians with raiders, boarding or advancing Centurions, or, if there are two basestars on the board, trying to get two damage tokens on Galactica.
 
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Aaron Rainey
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In regards to the nukes, another strategy is trying to get to the Admiral position as an undeclared cylon however you can. If it is still relatively early try to "justify" using nukes during early attacks or if the jig is up use them all up before you declare if you can manage it.

If you are close to declaring and there is a situation where you have two basestars, try to get someone to use executive order on you so that you can burn nukes.

This really hurt us as the humans during one game because we got two cylon attack crisis cards in a row very late in the game and then the revealed cylon played played their massive attack super crisis.

Since we were out of nukes it was pretty much game over.
 
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Keith B
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I am also having trouble as to how you have been finding this a "walk in the park" for humans.

The last group to report this were drawing a crisis card only once every player had taken a turn (eg. in a 5 player game each player would take a turn and then a crisis card would be drawn). They were therefore only drawing 1/5 of the crisis cards they should (one should be drawn after each and every player's turn with exceptions fro brigged players and revealed Cylons)
 
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Cristiano Batista
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Rigo86 wrote:
So in our group we started playing Battlestar Galactica and I have some questions because it seems that the game is a bit unfair to the Cylons (usually humans win in the group).


New to the game, and the game is unbalanced to the humans!?!?!

Man, you might be playing it soooooo wrong!

soblue
 
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Robert Stewart
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I can think of several reasons new players might find the game pro-Human.

1) Lax secrecy - if the humans discuss every skill check at length, agree who's going to play in and how much, and it's only the contributions from Destiny that make Investigative Committees worth the effort of playing, that doesn't leave the Cylons a lot of room to spike, and means that humans will be getting high efficiency out of their skillcards.

2) Insufficiently devious Cylons - if the Cylons are "playing human" to avoid detection for too long, or otherwise letting the humans have the run of the ship, then the humans will have an easy ride.

3) Good instincts - whether by shrewd analysis, gaming experience, or just good guesswork, some people just start out making the right calls.

4) Random chance - sometimes the cards and the dice come down on one side or the other. If there's a 1/3 chance of the humans being handed the win by the game, then for every seven hundred or so playgroups that play 6 games, 1-2 of them will have the game handed to the humans all 6 times.
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Gerry Smit
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Welcome to bgg!

Why not read thru a play by forum game that ended in a human win? Or any PBF game? You'll see lots of things there, including those "oh that's how you play!?!" moments where the PBF game differs from your group due to the mis-understanding of the rules. In PBF, you've got a moderator, 5-7 players, and abundant lurkers letting you know things that are wrong, forgotten, or just different.

Gerry

Some links:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/394860/battlestar-galactica-...

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/BSG_PBF
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Anthony Rigo
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rmsgrey wrote:
I can think of several reasons new players might find the game pro-Human.

1) Lax secrecy - if the humans discuss every skill check at length, agree who's going to play in and how much, and it's only the contributions from Destiny that make Investigative Committees worth the effort of playing, that doesn't leave the Cylons a lot of room to spike, and means that humans will be getting high efficiency out of their skillcards.

2) Insufficiently devious Cylons - if the Cylons are "playing human" to avoid detection for too long, or otherwise letting the humans have the run of the ship, then the humans will have an easy ride.

3) Good instincts - whether by shrewd analysis, gaming experience, or just good guesswork, some people just start out making the right calls.

4) Random chance - sometimes the cards and the dice come down on one side or the other. If there's a 1/3 chance of the humans being handed the win by the game, then for every seven hundred or so playgroups that play 6 games, 1-2 of them will have the game handed to the humans all 6 times.


Hey all again!

Thank you for your replies. Sorry for not replying earlier but I was out of town.

I have to agree most of the above reasons and if we add to that the fact that we have been playing with wrong rules I now understand why humans won all the time!

The past few games we had (played with the correct rules) the cylons won luck helped a bit) but at least the game seemed far more balanced than any other time!

But your comment makes me have another question! How do you deal with "lax secrecy"? I mean it is in the rules to allow a player to say "i can help or not"? Please share your experience if you can!
 
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Anthony Rigo
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GerryRailBaron wrote:
Welcome to bgg!

Why not read thru a play by forum game that ended in a human win? Or any PBF game? You'll see lots of things there, including those "oh that's how you play!?!" moments where the PBF game differs from your group due to the mis-understanding of the rules. In PBF, you've got a moderator, 5-7 players, and abundant lurkers letting you know things that are wrong, forgotten, or just different.

Gerry

Some links:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/394860/battlestar-galactica-...

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/BSG_PBF


thank you for the welcome and for showing me these PBF ganes! I am new to the forums and didnt know how it worked but now I will take a look on a couple of games! BSG is a really great game and me and my group will spnd a lot of time in it
 
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Robert Stewart
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Rigo86 wrote:
But your comment makes me have another question! How do you deal with "lax secrecy"? I mean it is in the rules to allow a player to say "i can help or not"? Please share your experience if you can!


The official FAQ for the game: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Battlestar_Gal...

The last page has (officially optional) secrecy guidelines.

In practice, it's very easy for a playgroup to let things slip on the secrecy front - if you say more than you probably should, it's hard for anyone to call you on it without making themselves out to be a Cylon - and next time the precedent's already been established...

There's also a fair amount of variation in how strict different groups are in applying the rules, and how far players try to crowd the line - as you'll see if you browse through several PBFs.

A couple of guiding principles that aren't in the FAQ, but I doubt anyone will object to:

1) You can always suggest actions to other people provided they don't rely on hidden information which you've seen - for example, if you haven't seen anyone else's loyalty card(s), you can suggest "Why not reveal and send Fred to sickbay?". Or, after a couple of jumps with no Cylon activity, you can tell a pilot that you expect them to play in big on Legendary Discovery.

2) The big risk with allowing human players to say things about hidden information they have is that it tends to end up with "everything not forbidden is mandatory" - when you allow human players to share a piece of information, you make it hard for Cylon players to hold that information back - and the more accurate information there is out there, and the more the Cylon has to share, the harder it is to maintain a consistent lie too. So, when considering whether to allow something, bear in mind that you're potentially forcing hidden Cylons to share equivalent information...
 
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Rigo86 wrote:
But your comment makes me have another question! How do you deal with "lax secrecy"? I mean it is in the rules to allow a player to say "i can help or not"? Please share your experience if you can!


Go with the suggestions in the official FAQ posted by rmsgrey.

Unfortunately, I've never had to deal with this sort of thing... the harsh and hard way is to forbid such people from playing BSG with you

rmsgrey wrote:

In practice, it's very easy for a playgroup to let things slip on the secrecy front - if you say more than you probably should, it's hard for anyone to call you on it without making themselves out to be a Cylon - and next time the precedent's already been established...

There's also a fair amount of variation in how strict different groups are in applying the rules, and how far players try to crowd the line - as you'll see if you browse through several PBFs.
I go ahead and call people out if secrecy rules aren't being followed. That won't always label people as cylons in my groups. In fact, I have called people out as a human, vs. other humans, in games where the cylons have already revealed. This sort of thing is no longer tied to helping your team, but breaks down to not following the game's rules.

On further note, I tend to be more lax on secrecy rules if humans have been losing ALOT, or if it's a hilarious/highly unusual moment where showing cards or info will add more to the game than winning or even following the game's rules.
 
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Anthony Rigo
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hey all i read all our comments and thank you!

I have a question about secrecy! on a skill check when the players say for example "i will contribute high or low" do they do it before the skill check or during the skill check when their turn comes?
 
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Robert Stewart
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Rigo86 wrote:
hey all i read all our comments and thank you!

I have a question about secrecy! on a skill check when the players say for example "i will contribute high or low" do they do it before the skill check or during the skill check when their turn comes?


Either. When discussing whether to go for a check, it's generally accepted to describe your potential contribution as "high" or "low" (personally, I think you're better saying "I'd want a lot of help from the Chief" than "I can only play in low"). When talking about the card(s) you just put into the skill check, the FAQ explicitly allows describing them as "high", "low", or if you played in more than one, "medium".

Try to avoid discussing what "high", "medium" and "low" should mean in this context - without discussion: a three could be "high" or "low"; four ones could be "low", "medium", or "high"; etc. It depends whether you're talking about the average value of the cards played, the total calue of the cards played, the total value of the cards played relative to the target of the check, the total value of the cards played relative to the target of the check divided by the number of players expected to contribute, or something else entirely.

Personally, I prefer not to volunteer the strength of my contribution before someone asks - there's a risk of inadvertent secrecy violations if, for example, someone playing a single card always says "low" for a one, always says "high" for a four or five, and always waits to be asked when they play a two or a three...
 
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Rigo86 wrote:
hey all i read all our comments and thank you!

I have a question about secrecy! on a skill check when the players say for example "i will contribute high or low" do they do it before the skill check or during the skill check when their turn comes?
either, but if you do it before, there's the understanding you can always be lying when it comes time to actually contribute. You can say "medium" if you lie about putting in more than 1 card, but you can't even lie about "1 card medium".
 
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Darcy Hartwick
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we played BSG as a group of 4 last week and had what I assume to be crazy bad luck for the humans.

We drew 5 or 6 cylon attacks during the game. We were consistently under attack until near the end where we had about 10 turns of no attacks so it was even more lopsided than it sounds.

At one point we had 2 base-stars out so I nuked one, only to re-add it at the end of my turn when I drew a cylon attack card... I might as well have saved the nuke since we couldn't have added a 3rd basestar anyways ><

Several times we had no more ships we could add to complete the attacks...

At the time this seemed ridiculous but I guess it was really an anomaly.
 
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