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Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Movement restrictions for Disoriented, Lost etc... rss

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Simon Lindén
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In PBF #42 a player wants to play Lost to move a stack of two Roman armies through another Roman army. Rome only has a stacking limit of two so normally that movement wouldn't be allowed. I didn't even think of this when allowing that the card was played but now I realize that it may be an illegal move?

The only movement restrictions clearly mentioned on the card is that water may not be crossed. Since this applies even if the civ has researched Sailing (etc.) it suggests that normal movement restrictions does not apply for these cards but I'm certainly not sure about that.

Is there an official answer for this?
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Alandor wrote:
Is there an official answer for this?

I doubt it ...

Though I would say that it should be a legal card play.
 
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Simon Lindén
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As a more experienced GM than I - how would you deal with this situation? Would you wait for more confirmation or would you decide to play by your interpretation?
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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Alandor wrote:
As a more experienced GM than I - how would you deal with this situation? Would you wait for more confirmation or would you decide to play by your interpretation?

I would make a quick poll between players, with my vote being the "minerva" (tie-breaker)vote.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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rdonoso wrote:
Alandor wrote:
As a more experienced GM than I - how would you deal with this situation? Would you wait for more confirmation or would you decide to play by your interpretation?

I would make a quick poll between players, with my vote being the "minerva" (tie-breaker)vote.

That's a problem, since two of the players are involved in the poll. In my previous dispute (for example, India getting Culture off Resources sent by a Scout) only one player was involved.

I would follow your gut. Alternatively, I would PM Peristarkawan, which I consider the number one authority on Civ rules.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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My gut says it shouldn't be allowed. Kevin made it very clear that stacking limit is an absolute limit. Making someone exceed it even temporarily means suspending the rules for that move and no exception is made to suspend those rules.

I personally think that a good ruling would be that you can't move through other friendly units at all (think of it as running into some friendlies that say, "dude you are going the wrong way"), but clearly that isn't the rule.
 
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Aaron Morgan
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Alandor wrote:
Since this applies even if the civ has researched Sailing (etc.) it suggests that normal movement restrictions does not apply for these cards but I'm certainly not sure about that.


I don't think it suggests that at all. If anything, the restrictions on "Lost" should be applied in addition to any other movement restrictions.

There's a bit of boxed text at the beginning of the Combat Commander rulebook that I think needs to appear in other game rulebooks:

Quote:
IMPORTANT: In Combat Commander,
the motto “a rule means exactly what it
says” should be the order of the day. In
other words, as quoted from another fine
game, Totaler Krieg!: “Do not infer or
imagine more to a rule than is stated in it.
When in doubt, interpret strictly”.
 
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Daniel Hammond
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If you were allowed to exceed the stacking limits then nothing would prevent you from stopping on the exceeded stack, then what happens?
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Alright, I've been convinced by the vocal majority You cannot ignore stacking rules when moving with Culture cards.
 
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Shogi Gut

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I am that player playing the "Lost" card. After reading the discussion here I wholeheartedly agree with you guys' ruling. I just totally forgot about stacking limit when making the move.

The situation is like this: I play the card to move the two Roman armies away from another player's city to hinder his attack on that city. If that is my intention then the stacking limit problem seems not to matter the result (that's why I totally ignore the problem). But let say I'm going to help instead of hinder the Roman armies, I can opt to play "Lost" to move the stack of 2 to another army and make a stack of 3! This will open a way for two players to work toegether and breach the stacking limit.

 
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Simon Lindén
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I've sent a rules question to FFG, hoping for an official answer. But maybe that's hoping too much

Until then I suppose we'll play according to the general opinion in this thread.
 
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Simon Lindén
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I received an official answer from Kevin!

"Hi Simon,

You cannot force someone to exceed their stacking limit when using Disoriented, Lost, etc.

-Kevin Wilson"
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Daniel Hammond
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dlhammond wrote:
My gut says it shouldn't be allowed. Kevin made it very clear that stacking limit is an absolute limit. Making someone exceed it even temporarily means suspending the rules for that move and no exception is made to suspend those rules.




Thanks for asking and posting the answer!
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El-ad David Amir
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Alandor wrote:
I received an official answer from Kevin!

"Hi Simon,

You cannot force someone to exceed their stacking limit when using Disoriented, Lost, etc.

-Kevin Wilson"

That's excellent news!! Did you reach him through the FFG channel? Maybe we can now ask him a bunch of other questions.
 
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Simon Lindén
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Yes, I just posted a question on FFG's homepage. I thought that this meant he now had taken the time to answer all the other questions that had been forwarded to him as well but apparently not.
 
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