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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=3385
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Sean D.
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At the end of the article:
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look for Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition on store shelves in just a few more weeks


So, by mid August in Canada from past experience.
 
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They look good; I like the choice between fighty sniper and dodgy utility character. I'm suprised that FF don't include the starting skills for the two classes though.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Danger Sense seems incredibly powerful. Couldn't the wildlander use that to lock the OL out of having any cards within a few turns?
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From near the beginning of the article
"...and all of this will culminate in its long-awaited release in the last half of July!"
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Kevin Walsh
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Danger Sense seems incredibly powerful. Couldn't the wildlander use that to lock the OL out of having any cards within a few turns?

It seems very good all right. OTOH, the Fatigue cost means it'll be hard to keep doing it, and the OL can still increase their hand of cards by knocking out heroes.
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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Amaranth wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Danger Sense seems incredibly powerful. Couldn't the wildlander use that to lock the OL out of having any cards within a few turns?

It seems very good all right. OTOH, the Fatigue cost means it'll be hard to keep doing it, and the OL can still increase their hand of cards by knocking out heroes.

Doesn't seem to hard. The overlord can't interrupt attempts to rest anymore, so you can restore your fatigue every turn with 100% reliability if you want. If you're playing Tomble, your stamina is higher than your speed, so you're probably going to be trying to rest just about every turn anyway, since that'll be worth more movement points than a regular move action.

It's not free. You need to spend 1 XP to get it, and give up (basically) 2 movement per turn to use it constantly. But I can't see any reason that it would be worth buying but not worth using every turn, and the overlord doesn't have any apparent way to stop you other than knocking you out.

I predict that either this skill is so weak that it will never be purchased, or that it will routinely be used every turn and they'll nerf it somehow in the first FAQ.

Bonus: This skill breaks player scaling. The overlord draws 1 card per turn whether he's facing 2 heroes or 4, but in both cases it only requires 1 hero to buy this skill and spend fatigue to make him throw it away.

Not that I'm convinced the scaling rules are going to work in the first place. They certainly didn't in 1e...
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Ken Marley
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Danger Sense does use an action by the hero. So if he rests and uses this every turn then he isn't doing anything except move. Which might be ok. The OL can hold a card to maybe gimp the wildander.

The wildander seems like it will be a good class with 4 heroes but not so great with two. It relies on having a bow which means you want to dig though the store deck which will happen more often with 4 heroes. Also Danger Sense is better is it is using 1/8 of the heroes actions rather than 1/4.

I like the thief. Unseen, caltrops, and Dirty Tricks seems strong.
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I overlooked that it required an action. But I don't think that changes the important part of my analysis, which is that if it is ever worth using, it is probably worth using nearly all the time. It just reduces my estimate of the probability that it is worth using at all.

On a tangential note: using a different convention for each of three possible skill use costs is a really bad idea. We have action cost as a symbol before the description, exhaustion cost as a word embedded inside the description, and fatigue cost as a number in the corner of the card. It's like they're doing everything they can to make sure you'll overlook at least one of those.
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Antistone wrote:
On a tangential note: using a different convention for each of three possible skill use costs is a really bad idea. We have action cost as a symbol before the description, exhaustion cost as a word embedded inside the description, and fatigue cost as a number in the corner of the card. It's like they're doing everything they can to make sure you'll overlook at least one of those.


Agreed, I'm surprised it's not streamlined.
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Hector131 wrote:
At the end of the article:
Quote:
look for Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition on store shelves in just a few more weeks


So, by mid August in Canada from past experience.


i've ordered a few fantasy flight games from www.germangames.com in the past and always had them 1 week after the americans. they're pretty good about it, especially if you tell the owner (sean? i think) that you're excited about getting it right away.
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D2E wrote:
Caltrops (2xp, 1 fatigue): When a Monster moves into an empty space adjacent to you, exhaust this card to test Awareness. If you pass, the Monster suffers 1 Damage and is Immobilized.

Immobilized: You cannot perform move actions or suffer (fatigue) to gain movement points. Discard this card or token at the end of your turn.

Do Caltrops stop the Monster in the space mid-move action? From the rules it seems they don't, the move action was already performed to make movement points. But this sucks thematically and seems to make Caltrops too weak. In fact it makes them almost totally useless because the monster can interrupt their move action to perform another move action before stepping adjacent to the thief.

Maybe the monster does lose their movement points. What happens to a large monster if it's stopped in a space it cannot "expand"?

Does making a Caltrops attempt against a large monster "interrupt" its movement? So should it expand before the attempt? If you think making a mid-move attack can speed up a large monster can Caltrops also speed it up?

Edited to add more of my confusion.
 
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Terah wrote:
D2E wrote:
Caltrops (2xp, 1 fatigue): When a Monster moves into an empty space adjacent to you, exhaust this card to test Awareness. If you pass, the Monster suffers 1 Damage and is Immobilized.

Immobilized: You cannot perform move actions or suffer (fatigue) to gain movement points. Discard this card or token at the end of your turn.

Do Caltrops stop the Monster in the space mid-move action? From the rules it seems they don't, the move action was already performed to make movement points. But this sucks thematically and seems to make Caltrops too weak. In fact it makes them almost totally useless because the monster can interrupt their move action to perform another move action before stepping adjacent to the thief.

Maybe the monster does lose their movement points. What happens to a large monster if it's stopped in a space it cannot "expand"?

Does making a Caltrops attempt against a large monster "interrupt" its movement? So should it expand before the attempt? If you think making a mid-move attack can speed up a large monster can Caltrops also speed it up?

Edited to add more of my confusion.



Well,as far as the monster is immobilized,he can't perform move action,so he can't move anymore.
No problem here.
 
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Quote:
Do Caltrops stop the Monster in the space mid-move action? From the rules it seems they don't, the move action was already performed to make movement points. But this sucks thematically and seems to make Caltrops too weak. In fact it makes them almost totally useless because the monster can interrupt their move action to perform another move action before stepping adjacent to the thief.

Maybe the monster does lose their movement points. What happens to a large monster if it's stopped in a space it cannot "expand"?

Does making a Caltrops attempt against a large monster "interrupt" its movement? So should it expand before the attempt? If you think making a mid-move attack can speed up a large monster can Caltrops also speed it up?

From page 16 on Large monsters:

"The monster is only considered to have entered the one space in which it
ended its movement
. In other words, large monsters “shrink” to move as
if they were normal-sized monsters, then “expand” again when they are
done moving."

As for the first point, I believe that the Caltrops would interrupt the movement of the normal sized monsters. After the check, it would be considered illegal to continue the move action, even if technically you already have movement points after declaring the move action before the Caltrops. I would interpret all the movement points as the move action, but the rules are a little ambiguous.
 
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Belsamoreth wrote:
Well,as far as the monster is immobilized,he can't perform move action,so he can't move anymore.
No problem here.

Not that simple. If I give you a status effect that says "you cannot be healed", that doesn't mean that you lose the health you already have. Similarly, if I give you a status that says "you cannot suffer fatigue to gain movement points", that presumably does not stop you from spending movement points that you gained by suffering fatigue earlier in your turn.

It's not obvious whether or not "you cannot perform move actions" means that you need to instantly abort a move action that is already in progress, though my guess would be that that's the intent in at least this specific case, given the nature of the skill. They were pretty sloppy on the distinction between movement and movement points in 1e, too.

And yes, this certainly sounds like an interruption in movement, so presumably you'd give a large monster some free movement if you used it on him. That doesn't really matter if it stops him from moving...but even if "Immobilized" instantly halts movement, you could still give him a free step if you tried to use this and failed the trait check.
 
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Also on Danger Sense, keep in mind that the overlord draws a card on his turn. So even if there were four people with danger sense skills that used it all the time, the overlord would at least be able to play 1 card on his turn. It will just be harder to play cards on the heroes' turn, if not impossible.

The overlord also has monsters on the playing field, so while the card would make his hand smaller, he can still fight with his monsters. On top of that, the player using Danger Sense is out 2 fatigue and 1 action, so it seems like the card has its strengths and weaknesses, more than likely depending on the situation.
 
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I like how Treasure Chests are now randomly inserted in the Search deck. Makes finding one really exciting!

Am I correct that the contents of a chest are now only for the finder, as opposed to first edition where everyone got the goods?
 
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zolrac01 wrote:
From page 16 on Large monsters:

"The monster is only considered to have entered the one space in which it
ended its movement
. In other words, large monsters “shrink” to move as
if they were normal-sized monsters, then “expand” again when they are
done moving."

Great Scott! The part you bolded implies large monsters can not be effected by anything triggered off entering spaces until they finish moving. But then it's contradicted by the next part. I think the truth is the bolded rule is limited to large monsters expanding at the end of movement. That fits the rule's location in the rule book, eliminates the contradiction and means Ogres won't be able to take no damage while running through wide lava. It doesn't solve the problem of what happens if a large monster is Caltropped in a space it cannot expand.

And there's the further question: a large monster does not "enter" spaces it expands into, but does it "move into" those spaces? These seem to be synonyms, so probably the answer is "no". But that makes the skill "Guard" fairly useless against large monsters.
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I believe you are correct. Man those rules are confusing! In any case, the only thing I can think of, is if you interrupt a large monster's movement with the skill, it had better be able to expand; otherwise the caltrops cannot be used. I think I read that rule out of context, and it is mainly stating that for movement (and terrain) sake, a monster is only considered to have entered the one space it ended its movement vs all of the spaces.
 
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Danger Sense seems incredibly powerful. Couldn't the wildlander use that to lock the OL out of having any cards within a few turns?


I was worried as well.

But looking into it, I don't think so, not so much anyway. The OL starts with 1 card per hero, so 2-4. He draws a card at the start of his turn, and gains a card when he KOs a hero. Failed trap cards also generate a new card. There's no limit to the number of cards the OL has.

Danger Sense takes an action, so it can only be used during the hero turn. What this will do when in play is lesson the OL's ability to spring surprise traps on the heroes. He'll still be able to play nearly all his cards, he just loses the ability to hold on to a card to try and find the perfect time to play it.

I don't think on it's own that it's OP. We'll have to see what combos come along.
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Terah wrote:
D2E wrote:
Caltrops (2xp, 1 fatigue): When a Monster moves into an empty space adjacent to you, exhaust this card to test Awareness. If you pass, the Monster suffers 1 Damage and is Immobilized.

Immobilized: You cannot perform move actions or suffer (fatigue) to gain movement points. Discard this card or token at the end of your turn.

Do Caltrops stop the Monster in the space mid-move action? From the rules it seems they don't, the move action was already performed to make movement points. But this sucks thematically and seems to make Caltrops too weak. In fact it makes them almost totally useless because the monster can interrupt their move action to perform another move action before stepping adjacent to the thief.

Maybe the monster does lose their movement points. What happens to a large monster if it's stopped in a space it cannot "expand"?

Does making a Caltrops attempt against a large monster "interrupt" its movement? So should it expand before the attempt? If you think making a mid-move attack can speed up a large monster can Caltrops also speed it up?



Antistone wrote:
Belsamoreth wrote:
Well,as far as the monster is immobilized,he can't perform move action,so he can't move anymore.
No problem here.

Not that simple. If I give you a status effect that says "you cannot be healed", that doesn't mean that you lose the health you already have. Similarly, if I give you a status that says "you cannot suffer fatigue to gain movement points", that presumably does not stop you from spending movement points that you gained by suffering fatigue earlier in your turn.

It's not obvious whether or not "you cannot perform move actions" means that you need to instantly abort a move action that is already in progress, though my guess would be that that's the intent in at least this specific case, given the nature of the skill. They were pretty sloppy on the distinction between movement and movement points in 1e, too.

And yes, this certainly sounds like an interruption in movement, so presumably you'd give a large monster some free movement if you used it on him. That doesn't really matter if it stops him from moving...but even if "Immobilized" instantly halts movement, you could still give him a free step if you tried to use this and failed the trait check.


Firstly, in reply to everyone losing their minds about this card think about what a caltrop really is, a spiky little trap on the ground that's gonna puncture your skin and do damage. Now I ask you this: are you still going to be moving around if you step on a couple of these? I know the bottom of my feet aren't 2 inches thick filled with callus', I'm gonna drop to the ground in pain or something to that affect that keeps me where I am. So in my opinion, it's going to stop the monster in its tracks. As for large monsters, it will have to expand to make room and stay in it's space legally. The large monster can pivot about this one spot you've been moving it on.


Antistone wrote:
Amaranth wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
Danger Sense seems incredibly powerful. Couldn't the wildlander use that to lock the OL out of having any cards within a few turns?

It seems very good all right. OTOH, the Fatigue cost means it'll be hard to keep doing it, and the OL can still increase their hand of cards by knocking out heroes.

Doesn't seem to hard. The overlord can't interrupt attempts to rest anymore, so you can restore your fatigue every turn with 100% reliability if you want. If you're playing Tomble, your stamina is higher than your speed, so you're probably going to be trying to rest just about every turn anyway, since that'll be worth more movement points than a regular move action.

It's not free. You need to spend 1 XP to get it, and give up (basically) 2 movement per turn to use it constantly. But I can't see any reason that it would be worth buying but not worth using every turn, and the overlord doesn't have any apparent way to stop you other than knocking you out.

I predict that either this skill is so weak that it will never be purchased, or that it will routinely be used every turn and they'll nerf it somehow in the first FAQ.


This again is over analyzing a basic idea. I see this card being used (if purchased at all) during lulls in the game play (if there are any) cause once the monsters really start pushing, the hero will be more focused on killing the monsters rather then trying to keep the OL's hand low. Also, the card does require one of the two action points to use, so if anything, the hero will be moving and draining the OL's hand or attacking (or other special action) and trying to drain the OL's hand. To do this continuously is a bad idea. Even if the hero commits to playing this card every turn, he'll need to regen his stamina(fatigue) in order to do this so either he'll miss a turn or two getting his stamina(fatigue) back or be left behind.

El Ravager wrote:
I like how Treasure Chests are now randomly inserted in the Search deck. Makes finding one really exciting!

Am I correct that the contents of a chest are now only for the finder, as opposed to first edition where everyone got the goods?


Yes, the contents of the chest are now only for the finder. No where in the rules does it state that each player gets a piece of the pie (like it did in D1e).

The big difference is now players pool all of their money together to buy at the store rather then having their own coins to deal with. Plus the heroes may trade freely with each other as long as they're next to one another.
 
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Zerrian wrote:
As for large monsters, it will have to expand to make room and stay in it's space legally. The large monster can pivot about this one spot you've been moving it on.

What if it can't?
 
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Then you have a bad OL that shouldn't be moving a huge monster in a tight corridor or behind a hero where it basically shouldn't/couldn't be moving in the first place.

This will certainly have to be addressed by FFG's errata and FaQ once the games been out long enough.

My opinion would be to move the monster back as many steps as needed to occupy a legal space in the direction/path it came from.
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Zerrian wrote:
Then you have a bad OL that shouldn't be moving a huge monster in a tight corridor or behind a hero where it basically shouldn't/couldn't be moving in the first place.

I'm not sure I understand this; the whole point of the "shrink and move" rule was precisely to allow moving through a tight corridor, and depending on the quest, doing so may be the tactically smart thing to do (to try and cut the hero off, for instance.
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Now that I think about it, Caltrops is not really that great. If a monster is coming to hit you, and you immobilize it, it's still standing right next to you! Yes, 1 damage, but still, it would be better if you could leave it in a space, or it was 2 spaces away.
 
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