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Subject: Talisman 3rd vs 4th edition rss

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Jfkoski
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3rd vs 4th edition

Characters
The 4th edition game is much like the third. Your character has stats represented by cones. Unfortunately, they've gotten rid of the experience cones. Instead you keep the enemy's card as a trophy and redeem it for that stat (monsters for strength, spirits for craft). If you don't have exactly 7 (or 14, etc) there's no change, so this makes it even more restrictive. There's no trophy card for winning in the Crags, Forest or Cave (unless you make your own, as I did for Staff of Mastery in 3rd edition) so those places are worse. Life cones have been clarified. You still can only "heal" to your starting value, but now if you "gain a life" you can have the big cone.

On the plus side, characters have a fate stat. You can spend a fate token to re-roll your die roll for movement, attack, card or space, but must keep the 2nd roll. That means it's less likely for you to turn into a toad, although it's happened twice: at Enchantress they rolled a 1, played a fate, rolled another 1; I cast Random, rolled a 6, played a fate, and rolled a 1. Some cards let you gain a fate, and I know evil characters can get fate at the graveyard.

There's no starting equipment, but they're pretty easy to come by, and weapons no longer break.

Board
The board's almost identical. They've moved a blacksmith to the village for weapons and armor. There's two cards in the deck which allow these purchases plus water bottle and mule, a market place, and a travelling market event for all players. The City corner now forces you to visit someone: use alchemist, pay healer, or else roll for enchantress. The Tavern corner is a little better too, since there's a wizard who'll teleport you on a 5, and you still can lose gold, but won't lose a life. The graveyard has moved closer to the chapel.

Crossing the river has changed a little. There's a bridge next to the village, the sole purpose for it is ditching the poltergeist without crossing to the middle region (formerly called the inner region). Before, you paid a toll to cross the bridge either direction; now you fight the sentinel (Strength 9) on the way in, only (no problem passing from middle to outer region). What's new is you can use an axe to build a raft in a woods or forest space. Next turn, you cross or discard the raft. The travelling market sells a raft (there's only one card) to the first player who wants to buy it. Of course, on a roll of 6 at the Tavern the ferryman still offers to cross you to the Temple.

They've eliminated two draw-2 spaces in the middle region and replaced them with draw-1 Runes spaces (+2 to enemies, and this time you don't get the extra experience). This is not an improvement, since we need draw-2 and draw-3 spaces to go through the deck faster. Without experience, the Temple has a 2d chart that's good/bad depending on high/low rolls. Other spaces are the same.

Adventure Cards
The cards are pretty much the same. There's still the Wand, Magic Belt, Solomon's Crown and other desirable objects; some alignment-restrictive. Unfortunately, there's just not enough to go around. You can use gold to buy a weapon, mule, armor, and water bottle. My main card complaint is there's still not blank spell and adventure cards to create your own.

Inner Region/Ending
From the middle region you try to go through the Portal of Power to what's now the inner region. To do that you must pick the lock or push the door with 2 dice equal to or less than your craft or strength, respectively. You then get to a free space which tells you to move only one space per turn in this region. You next go left or right, but either is a teleport out of the region if you fail to roll 3 dice under strength or craft. Ideally, you'd continue a couple spaces more to the space where you use the talisman. The final space is the tower where you use the Crown of Command once per turn to cast a spell to take one life from all your opponents until they're all dead or one comes after you to take your place.

In the 3rd edition you enter the Portal of Power without trouble if you have a talisamn, deal with object and follower traps, then fight the dragon king whose strength or craft is 12. Theoretically, you don't need 12+ to win in 4th edition, but in practice the teleport spaces take care of the weak. I understand the expansions have alternate ending cards, one being the dragon king.

The first game we had 5 characters. No one got through the Portal of Power. We quit after we drew the last card in the deck. There just weren't enough cards to go around to level us up.
Our second game we had 4 characters and allowed level-up at 5-trophy points instead of 7 (an optional rule). The Minstrel and the Troll made it through the Portal of Power but got teleported out. The Assassin landed on the Thief's horde after the latter was turned into a toad, but he still didn't have 10 strength or 10 craft, so we quit.

Conclusion
I think as I go on, I'm going to keep playing 3rd edition, but without its expansion boards. I've made a score of cards, mainly from the expansions, to shuffle in the Adventure deck. I've also modified the City Gates to let us buy purchase cards from the city expansion (mule, great axe, etc). I like the fate tokens, so it's just a matter of time and effort to give each character a fate value.
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Elliott Eastoe
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Oh dear god. You obviously have never played the 2nd edition version of the game, which is what the revised 4th Edition is based on! Most players think the 3rd edition is the worst edition, which I also agree with. Each to their own I suppose. The newest version has 7 expansions already with more to come!!! The 3rd edition board is horrendous to look at, skulls everywhere and it looks like it's designed for kids!

Ell.
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Eduard Navratil
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Yeah, 3rd edition rules!
It's faster, and it has streamlined rules and original graphic design.
As another reason I might add that you don't have to have the Talisman to enter the Portal - it may kill you (and usually will, at 50+ %), but you have a chance...

However, I prefer Prophecy to both of these
 
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Elliott Eastoe
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The revised 4th edition also has streamlined rules! Don't even start me on the terrible artwork in the 3rd edition, yuck lol

Ell.
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Robert Loblah
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Sandal_Thong wrote:
Board
The board's almost identical.

Yes. Except for the skulls.
 
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Gert Meyer
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Sandal_Thong wrote:
The first game we had 5 characters. No one got through the Portal of Power. We quit after we drew the last card in the deck. There just weren't enough cards to go around to level us up.


Aren't you supposed to reshuffle the Adventure deck discard pile once you run out?
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Jfkoski
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gert74 wrote:

Aren't you supposed to reshuffle the Adventure deck discard pile once you run out?

True. I drew that Orb that let's you discard and draw again almost on the firs turn, so we went through the deck quickly. But even so, there weren't many cards in the discard worth seeing a 2nd time.
 
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Gert Meyer
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Sandal_Thong wrote:
gert74 wrote:

Aren't you supposed to reshuffle the Adventure deck discard pile once you run out?

True. I drew that Orb that let's you discard and draw again almost on the firs turn, so we went through the deck quickly. But even so, there weren't many cards in the discard worth seeing a 2nd time.


Well, you seemed to imply that leveling up was a problem. So all the monsters in the discard pile should help with that.

Additionally, some of the Stranger and Place cards can provide some nice boosts when visited.

But while money will be plentiful all of the great items will of course almost certainly be gone after the first time through the deck.
 
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Alex F
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Isn't the Orb a one-time use item?
 
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Luke O'Hearn
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talismanamsilat wrote:
Most players think the 3rd edition is the worst edition, which I also agree with. Each to their own I suppose.

I like 3rd > 2nd.

Third toned down a lot of the silliness like mules as objects. The expansions are better too - the Dungeon and City are more useful, and the other corners don't even exist in 2nd.

I would agree 4th is the best edition, but not hands down. 3rd has a number of points in its favour:

- Experience cones

- It fits on my table with the corner boards!

- The games are faster.

- The characters are better balanced (some 4th characters are obscene).

3rd also offers mechanics which are not necessarily better, but an interesting alternative, such as broken weapons, realm dice, the toll bridge, etc.

As for the art, I enjoy it. And 3rd does offer other aesthetics that 4th does not.

- The sculpts are vastly superior.
- 3-D Dragon Tower!

- Warhammer characters (Chaos Warrior, Skaven, Wardancer, etc).

I enjoy 3rd and 4th both, and I'd like to see a fifth edition that incorporates the best elements of 3rd and 4th (plus Timescape).
 
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