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Kristof Bodric
Serbia
Novi Sad
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And the ranger's aim was deadly with the big iron on his hip...
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Ok, so the title pretty much contains the questions.

1) What happens when you draw "Common European Home" with "Kiss of Death"?

Kiss of Death
The Communist Player must randomly discard a card. If it is neutral or Democratic it takes place immediately.

Common European Home (neutral card)
Play together with an opponent's Event to cancel the Event taking place. Opponent earns 1VP if this card is played for Ops.

My guess is that nothing happens. The card gets discarded and no effect takes place. Could somebody please confirm this?

2) In Twilight Struggle "Containment" and "Brezhnev Doctrine" both gave +1 Ops to their respective sides but up to a value of 4 Ops. Perestroika and The Sinatra Doctrine don't seem to have any such limitations printed on them. Does that mean that they a 4-Op card played by a player receiving the benefit of one of these cards would be worth 5 Ops? I would say yes, but I'd like an official answer if possible.

Thanks!!!
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Ted Torgerson
United States
Chicago
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Quote:
My guess is that nothing happens. The card gets discarded and no effect takes place. Could somebody please confirm this?


EDIT: initial response stands. Nothing happens.

Quote:
Does that mean that they a 4-Op card played by a player receiving the benefit of one of these cards would be worth 5 Ops? I would say yes, but I'd like an official answer if possible.


Official answer is yes, under Perestroika or Sinatra Doctrine a 4 Ops is worth 5 Ops.

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Kristof Bodric
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Wow, that was quick! Thanks Ted both for your reply and for creating this wonderful game! I am enjoying it immensely.
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Riku Riekkinen
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1989Game wrote:
Quote:
My guess is that nothing happens. The card gets discarded and no effect takes place. Could somebody please confirm this?


I can confirm this.


Are you aware that in TS there is ruling (from FAQ):

"32. UN Intervention
NOTE: If ‘Grain Sales’ draws ‘UN Intervention’ in the Headline Phase it must be returned, nor could it be played with an opponent’s Event.
Also to play ‘UN Intervention’ as an Event it must be played with an opponent’s associated Event, defined as a Red or White Star (Rule 2.2.2)
regardless of whether the Event can occur or not under Rule 5.2.
Q. Can a player use ‘UN Intervention’ on a card received through ‘Grain Sales?’
A. Yes. It works like this:
1. Play ‘Grain Sales’
2. Take the opponent’s card into your hand
3. If it is ‘UN Intervention’ play it with an opponent’s associated Event, or if it is an opponent’s associated Event play it with ‘UN
Intervention’ or
3. Return it and play ‘Grain Sales’ normally.
Q. Can ‘UN Intervention’ be used to cancel an event during an opponent’s action round.
A. No, absolutely not! The only way that ‘UN Intervention’ my be utilized is when played simultaneously with a card from your own hand."

Here is the FAQ: http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/7orb1xsrw5/Delu...?

So the logic of UN Intervention is that it allows to play yet another card when played as an event.
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Ted Torgerson
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No I was not aware of this ruling, but I accept it for precedent in 1989.

However, Kiss of Death is not quite the same as Grain Sales because with Grain Sales you get to choose to play the card or return it, and if you keep the card you get to choose Ops or event. I think they are different events. But we want to be consistent. I will leave it open for any other opinions. Do people think this ruling should cover Kristof's situation?
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Bruce Wigdor
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Lake Hiawatha
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So the logic of UN Intervention is that it allows to play yet another card when played as an event.


This is an inconsistent ruling and we will not be following it in 1989. UN Intervention is not a stand alone event==if you play it by itself, it can only be used for Ops. It is also not permitted to play it in the Headline Phase, because again, it is not a stand alone event. To treat it otherwise when it is drawn by Grain Sales is not consistent.

Neither is Common European Home a stand alone event. We have already ruled that, with Stasi, if you commit to playing Common European Home as your next card play, you cannot use it to cancel another event, because again, it is not a stand alone event. If you want to use Common European Home, you designate the card to be cancelled as your next card, and then play Common European when your turn comes to cancelled.

In general, we are trying to keep the rulings in 1989 and TS the same. But not on this one--the way they decided to do things in TS isn't consistent.
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Ted Torgerson
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In general, we are trying to keep the rulings in 1989 and TS the same. But not on this one--the way they decided to do things in TS is an unfortunate ruling inconsistent with other rulings in both TS and 1989.


Well the result can be the same on narrower grounds. You can distinguish the two cases, and even criticize the ruling in the other case, without overruling the precedent. I find the Grain Sales/UN Intervention ruling puzzling. But I think it's better just to say the two situations are different enough that we can ignore the Grain Sales/UN Intervention ruling when ruling on Kiss of Death/Common European Home.

Regardless, we agree: If you play Kiss of Death for the event and receive Common European Home, you cannot take another card from your hand and play it for Ops using Common European Home to cancel the event.
This will be the ruling.
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